***Official*** Australia in England 2012

[Spikey]

Starc called into the squad, should walk into the number 3 spot

 

[social]

Dropping Thorpe was still ludicrous. Thorpe averaged 45 against Australia. You can still make terrible decisions and win, just as you can make great decisions and lose. The result should not vindicate everything that precedes it.

Agreed and made worse by the fact that they selected Bell who was several classes below Thorpe at that stage of his career

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dropped Thorpe was an absolute smeller. As Scaly says the fact we won the series in no way justifies it. Bell scored about half a run all series and (IIRC) ended with a pair at The Oval.

I'm sure Spain could beat most teams with Fernando Torres in goal, but that doesn't make it the right call.

Meanwhile, just watching the highlights. Who told Warner he could bowl seam-up? Lolbad stuff.

 

[Jacknife]

I doubt there'll be too many mental scars as a result of 3 or 4 ODI losses. If people are goin to be scarred by that, they wouldn't be playing FC, let alone test cricket. Thorpe had been copping pizzlings for 12 years.

Said before it started that whatever happened in this series won't matter when the first test starts next year.

The one thing I do think is the Aussies from what they were saying before it started wanted to come over and leave the England batsmen especially, with something to think about for next year. Obviously things haven't quite gone to plan for them, in fact it couldn't have one much worse, mainly with how they've bowled and also the injuries to Cummins etc.

 

[GIMH]

Dropped Thorpe was an absolute smeller. As Scaly says the fact we won the series in no way justifies it. Bell scored about half a run all series and (IIRC) ended with a pair at The Oval.

I'm sure Spain could beat most teams with Fernando Torres in goal, but that doesn't make it the right call.

Meanwhile, just watching the highlights. Who told Warner he could bowl seam-up? Lolbad stuff.

Fletcher said in his book it was always between Thorpe and Pietersen. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

 

[wpdavid]

Fletcher said in his book it was always between Thorpe and Pietersen. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

The real problem was they picked Bell instead of KP for the tests against bang that preceded the ashes. IIRC Bell averaged 200+ in those two tests, and we had a problem. Hence the Thorpe vs Kp scenario.

 

[Spikey]

Yeah I was just about to say that, they could hardly drop Bell given his form into the series, and then Thorpe retired so couldn't replace Bell

 

[Stumpcam]

Yes, but how do you know they are good enough unless you try them?

There is such a thing as an FC system

and Lions games.

Neither of those are the same as full national honours. Valuable in themselves, but not the same.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Fletcher said in his book it was always between Thorpe and Pietersen. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

Having read the book I think it's fair to say Big Dunc quite rates Fletcher. A bloke who's never made any wrong calls ever.

Steve James ghosted it and he's a very smart cookie; he can't have been unaware what a prick Fletcher was making himself sound in parts, so he's either not such a good mate as Dunc thinks he is or Fletcher insisted the offending passages went in as is.

 

[Jacknife]

Neither of those are the same as full national honours. Valuable in themselves, but not the same.

No but it gives you a fair idea whether the player can make the step up.

Back to you're original point, we do experiment a bit with the younger player, we see players rested a fair bit and younger guys given chances, we've seen practically all England's young up and coming players in one form or the other. In the main though I don't like the idea of handing out caps to players just for the sake of checking out a young player, it devalues it imo, they have to earn them. There are enough injuries going around to allow the young guys or the next in line to have a go.

 

[Jacknife]

Having read the book I think it's fair to say Big Dunc quite rates Fletcher. A bloke who's never made any wrong calls ever.

Steve James ghosted it and he's a very smart cookie; he can't have been unaware what a prick Fletcher was making himself sound in parts, so he's either not such a good mate as Dunc thinks he is or Fletcher insisted the offending passages went in as is.

Then again it could have been a whole lot more prickish till James toned it down.

 

[GIMH]

Having read the book I think it's fair to say Big Dunc quite rates Fletcher. A bloke who's never made any wrong calls ever.

Steve James ghosted it and he's a very smart cookie; he can't have been unaware what a prick Fletcher was making himself sound in parts, so he's either not such a good mate as Dunc thinks he is or Fletcher insisted the offending passages went in as is.

Yeah, "Every team I've coached has improved under me blablabla," being part that stuck in mind.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Then again it could have been a whole lot more prickish till James toned it down.

Lol. Fair point, actually.

One shudders to imagine, frankly. "& after my second season in charge of Glamorgan the grateful people of Cardiff voted to raise several statues of me as a tribute to my tactical acumen."

 

[fredfertang]

Yeah, "Every team I've coached has improved under me blablabla," being part that stuck in mind.

..... and everyone who disagreed with him was wrong although, apparently, to their credit they accepted that and apologised - my abiding recollection of that book was the amount of humble pie Fletcher force fed to all and sundry

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, "Every team I've coached has improved under me blablabla," being part that stuck in mind.

Ha, ditto.

Been strangely quiet after copping two 4-0 arseholings on the bounce, hasn't he?

 

[Jacknife]

Lol. Fair point, actually.

One shudders to imagine, frankly. "& after my second season in charge of Glamorgan the grateful people of Cardiff voted to raise several statues of me as a tribute to my tactical acumen."

 

[BoyBrumby]

Have to say, with no hint of gloating or trolling, that I think Inverarity is talking out of his aris when he says the Baileys and Forrests of this world are the best Oz has to offer currently.

Obviously Hussey sr has his own (very good) reasons not to be there, but I can't help but think the likes of Hughes, Khawaja, White & (hey) Ponting would've done rather better.

 

[grecian]

Thorpe would have been better than KP or Bell, that Ashes doc when KP was given the accolades for winning in 2005 was a joke. Only scored runs in matches we didn't win, and his dropped catches were the only reason his Oval innings was so important.

 

[wpdavid]

One thing that the whole Bell/Thorpe/KP situation shows is that the whole 'next cab off the rank' theory needs to be held fairly lightly. Bell was NCOTR after making 70 on debut against WI the previous summer - replacing the injured Thorpe, iirc. He didn't play any further tests that winter during the SA tour but was still seen as next in line for the test side when a vacancy opened at the start of the English summer. Which was all well and good except that KP had scored those three tons in the SA one-dayers, in circumstances as hostile as you could wish to see. Those innings should have caused KP to leapfrog Bell into the test team, but instead we had the ****-up that we've been discussing.

Going back to Fletcher though, despite this particular episode and the 2006/07 series, I'd still have him seriously in credit for his time in charge. Indian fans might feel differently, admittedly.

 

[hazsa19]

The bowling WILL be better next year (can't be much worse anyway) but as you say the batting is a problem. Will this series leave mental scars on some of the younger players. After all, the players will look back and the last one day and test series they have played against England they have failed miserably as a unit and been thrashed constantly. No matter how good you are the mental side of the game takes over and you remember stuff.

Michael Vaughan's book about the 2005 ashes was telling, he wanted Thorpe out of the side as he was scarred mentally by Australian beatings, luckily we had KP to replace him. Australia don't have the same luxury with Forrest Gump in the side.

You're completely forgetting that Michael Vaughan is a moron