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Mike Procter interview

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Burgey

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Well, is there a point in discussing it with you really? When you are going to use people being straight and righteous against them as proof? And then in turn use that as as a proof against someone else to prove that he was definetely lying,in order to arrive at a even bigger conclusiong about Indian cricket culture as a whole.....
What the **** are you going on about mate? I made a comment about what was reported on in 2008, and then a comment on Indian cricket. You then said I was having a chop at Indian culture, which is flat out wrong. Now you're saying I'm calling someone a racist.

What the flying **** are you on about? Seriously?
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
What the **** are you going on about mate? I made a comment about what was reported on in 2008, and then a comment on Indian cricket. You then said I was having a chop at Indian culture, which is flat out wrong. Now you're saying I'm calling someone a racist.

What the flying **** are you on about? Seriously?
Ok. You didn't say any of those directly but in a implied way. Fair enough.

But what exactly did you mean by Indian Cricket culture in respect of these incidents, btw? And can i also have any proof of it being reported in 2008 with specifics please?


Don't really what to debate semantics or irrelevancies with you, so let's just stick to the topic in hand and not get distracted by Sachin's self righteousness.
 
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Burgey

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Ok. You didn't say any of those directly but in a implied way. Fair enough.

But what exactly did you mean by Indian Cricket culture in respect of these incidents, btw? And can i also have any proof of it being reported in 2008 with specifics please?


Don't really what to debate semantics or irrelevancies with you, so let's just stick to the topic in hand and not get distracted by Sachin's self righteousness.
What a **** post. "You didn't say any of those things but you implied them all".

Bull****. You ****ing read into these things what you want. What a crock of ****. Don't discuss this **** with me anymore mate, it's completely pointless. And I won't have you insinuating my saying Indian cricket has a **** attitude with any of the irrelevant **** you're wanting to conflate with that point.

India had a monumental hissy fit in 2008. Do you not remember? They wanted and got an umpire removed from officiating a series. Ridiculous. They threatened to go home: hissy fit. Their captain was moaning about the spirit of cricket, having in the preceding series abused the **** out of
Mohammad Yousuf on the field: hissy fit. It was an abject performance from a touring team. Appalling. It was, as I said, the first time I truly came to hate the simpering culture in Indian cricket. Not Indian culture as a whole because I don't give a **** about it as it doesnt interest me; the culture in Indian cricket. The victim mentality stuff.

If you want to look at contemporaneous reports of Tendulkar initially saying he heard nothing then saying he heard something but not something racist, then look at the tour thread from back then. In fact, there
May be reference to it in Proctor's match report itself (I CBF looking it up). Nevertheless, it was reported at the time. Which was the point I was making all along. It doesn't mean he did, but it was reported.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
If you want to look at contemporaneous reports of Tendulkar initially saying he heard nothing then saying he heard something but not something racist, then look at the tour thread from back then. In fact, there
May be reference to it in Proctor's match report itself (I CBF looking it up). Nevertheless, it was reported at the time. Which was the point I was making all along. It doesn't mean he did, but it was reported.
Don't want to respond to the first part because there are several issues mixed up there to draw a larger subjective conclusion in a rant again FFS! I'll respond to each one in detail and then you'll turn the debate into one about irrelevant semantics or bring in 2 or 3 different issues which are again unrelated.


But with respect to this part a Independent Judicial officer from Newzealand came to a different conclusion, which is all that matters in the end.

And anyways even if it was reported somewhere at a time of highly charged biased reporting from both sides, it isn't enough to state that as a fact which was what the point with SS was about.
 
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Burgey

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Well and good. But it was reported, which was all I've said. Don't starte on the NZ judge. Fmd.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Well it wouldn't have been a problem if you hadn't chose the wrong post to quote + added a lot of other irrelevant blabber with it which has different implications.

If you just want to say that it was reported at the time, just post that and give a link if you can.
 
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weldone

Hall of Fame Member
But whoever you believe, clearly you should believe Tendulkar the least considering he changed his testimony from the first hearing to the second.
Huh! As far as I am aware, that's only an allegation by Adam Gilchrist raised in his autobiography...
No, it was raised contemporaneously
Yeah Indeed. A Independent judicial mind from newzealand came to a different conclusion to Gilchrist, who was a Australian player.
Since I don't find anything from a credible source suggesting what ss and Burgey is saying is correct, I have to agree with Cevno till I do.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
coming back to the point.....

If sledging has to be banned then ban it completely.....this "racial abuse is off limits and everything else is kosher" won't really be very helpful.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Since I don't find anything from a credible source suggesting what ss and Burgey is saying is correct, I have to agree with Cevno till I do.
Official Report from Proctor:

https://docs.google.com/View?docID=dct39c8s_80hpbr8gd9&revision=_latest
Both umpires did not hear nor did Ricky Ponting or Sachin Tendulkar.

....

I note that Sachin Tendulkar only became involved when he realized that something was happening and was gestured over. He tried to calm things down because something had happened that he did not hear.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Report from Judge Hansen:

Contrary to reports that Mr Tendulkar heard nothing he told me he heard a heated exchange and wished to calm Mr Singh down. His evidence was that there was swearing between the two. It was initiated by Mr Symonds. That he did not hear the word "monkey" or "big monkey" but he did say he heard Mr Singh use a term in his native tongue "teri maki" which appears to be pronounced with a "n". He said this is a term that sounds like "monkey" and could be misinterpreted for it.
Judgment of Justice John Hansen

Certainly seems like he changed his story to me.
 

Burgey

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Since I don't find anything from a credible source suggesting what ss and Burgey is saying is correct, I have to agree with Cevno till I do.
That'll be "oopsy, I wasnt looking very ****ing hard", won't it?
 

Burgey

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Well it wouldn't have been a problem if you hadn't chose the wrong post to quote + added a lot of other irrelevant blabber with it which has different implications.

If you just want to say that it was reported at the time, just post that and give a link if you can.
No, you have your head up your arse. Like you usually do.
 

Burgey

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All you're doing is proving my point - it was reported. Keep posting more stories about it, please. You're just proving it over and over and over again.
 

Cruxdude

International Debutant
India had a monumental hissy fit in 2008. Do you not remember? They wanted and got an umpire removed from officiating a series. Ridiculous. They threatened to go home: hissy fit. Their captain was moaning about the spirit of cricket, having in the preceding series abused the **** out of
Mohammad Yousuf on the field: hissy fit. It was an abject performance from a touring team. Appalling. It was, as I said, the first time I truly came to hate the simpering culture in Indian cricket. Not Indian culture as a whole because I don't give a **** about it as it doesnt interest me; the culture in Indian cricket. The victim mentality stuff.
What do you really find ridiculous in a poor umpire giving horrendous decisions being removed from officiating in a premier series. It is ridiculous that the Indian board had to get involved to have him removed, when the ICC should have done the same. Any other sport, and the umpire would have been removed without any complaint.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Report from Judge Hansen:



Judgment of Justice John Hansen

Certainly seems like he changed his story to me.
That was what the whole controversy about Procter's decision was. Sachin's testimony had been leaked a day before already and Pawar too had clarified in advance that Sachin had told the board that he didn't hear Harbhajan saying Monkey but other words in a provocative exchange instigated by Symonds. But despite that Procter came to a decision that he couldn't hear it himself and that despite what Saching say he only became involved after the altercation. Which is from where the whole bitter Gavaskar racist charge on procter came from.

Procter's dodgy reasoning gives Bhajji hope - Times Of India

Hansen overruled Procter's findings based on the joint statement and Symonds testimony that he was close enough. Furthermore, one of Indian team's biggest complaints against Proctor was that he only allowed Harbhajan to speak during the hearing from the Indian camp.

It is explained here -


let's start with the leaked Procter report.Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

'Procter said in his written statement that Tendulkar could not have
known what was said in the controversial exchange.

"It was submitted to me by Chetan Chauhan (Indian team manager and
former member of parliament) that there was doubt because the umpires
and other players did not hear the words but, in my judgment, they
would not have been in a position to hear them," Procter wrote in a
statement after the hearing.'

OK... so Procter decided Tendulkar and the umpires could not have
known what was said.

Now... yes... I did see the headline at the top of that report from
The Australian and I read the first paragraph. I think it's a poor,
possibly dishonest piece of editing. What they have is Procter saying
that in his judgement SRT couldn't have heard what was said. There is
no quoting of any testimony by Tendulkar. If there were then the press
could have had a field day "SRT says THIS to Procter, says something
else outside of the hearing." But they didn't go that route.

Now the joint statement from players on both sides prepared ahead of
the Hansen hearing and signed by, amongst others, Ricky Ponting and
Andrew Symonds.

You can read this at http://tinyurl.com/3wn3k8h

The relevant passage is this:
"However all of the players who gave evidence to the hearing before
Match Referee Procter of what was said between Harbhajan Singh and
Andrew Symonds namely, Harbhajan Singh, Andrew Symonds, Mathew Hayden
and Michael Clarke, are all clearly of the view that in the
circumstances, Harbhajan Singh used language that was (and intended by
Singh to be), offensive to Andrew Symonds."

There's a list of players who gave evidence before Procter. I remind
you that Tendulkar, Symonds, Singh and Ponting signed this document.
Note that Tendulkar's name is not in that list of players giving
evidence to Procter.

Hansen's report can be read athttp://tinyurl.com/3qqohy9

Note that he reproduces the text of the joint statement of agreed
facts in full.

Two sections of that document have some relevance here.

1) "Mr Symonds accepted that Mr Tendulkar of all the participants was
closest to Mr Singh. A viewing of the video shows that people were
moving around but certainly Mr Tendulkar appears to have been closest
to Mr Singh in the course of the heated exchange we are concerned
with. Contrary to reports that Mr Tendulkar heard nothing he told me
he heard a heated exchange and wished to calm Mr Singh down."

Note Hansen's wording - "Contrary to reports..." not "Contrary to his
testimony before Mr Procter..."

2) "Mr Procter also noted in his decision that he did not consider the
umpires or Mr Tendulkar were in a position to hear the words. I have
of course had the advantage of seeing extensive video footage which in
fact establishes that Mr Tendulkar was within earshot and could have
heard the words. Indeed it is now clear Mr Tendulkar did hear the
exchange but not the words alleged."

There it is again. Procter decided that SRT hadn't, indeed couldn't
have heard anything.

So Tendulkar did not tell Procter he didn't hear anything, Procter
made that judgement - the two are NOT equivalent. It is not the case
that SRT said one thing before Procter and another before Hansen.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
(A) Burgey, you are a ****. Not because of what you're spouting here, but because you come across as a generally ignorant tool. **** you. You have no comprehension of cultures, mores, and dynamics far more ancient than yours so keep it canned.

(B) Cevno, casteism is thinly veiled racism. We can go to thesauruses all we want, but we know what it stands for. I've known Brahmin friends who've spent uncomfortable hours in custody with me...standup guys in every other sense but you push them enough and you know where they stand w.r.t certain issues.

Harbhajan is someone who slapped his national teammate in public for ****sakes. The guy is pathetic and so is his ***** backer Tendulkar..."oh so I'm standing next to him but I can't hear what's going on..". Spineless prick.
 

Burgey

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What do you really find ridiculous in a poor umpire giving horrendous decisions being removed from officiating in a premier series. It is ridiculous that the Indian board had to get involved to have him removed, when the ICC should have done the same. Any other sport, and the umpire would have been removed without any complaint.
What an utter pile of horse ****. The bloke was appointed, made some poor calls, and one team had him removed because they didn't like those decisions. ****, I wish I knew that was the arrangement back in 2001.
 
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