Mike Procter interview

[uvelocity]

yeah of course you know that

I just said it cause theres no stats on it

 

[Burgey]

Nah! But you can draw conclusions out of it either way.

Of course you can. Was the genesis of my and most right thinking people's hatred of the simpering Indian cricket culture. But to say, as you do, that the only time St Sachin of the Cochlea Implant was accused of selective deafness was later in Gilchrist's book it utter bull****. It was said at the time.

Whether he did change his story or not is a different thing to whether the allegation was made against him at the time. Ftr I believe he did. Fits his self-righteousness down pat.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

It is quite sad that an incident where possibly only Harbhajan knows the REAL truth has had such an impact on so many people and will do for many years to come. You have to feel sorry for Proctor as he was left to oversee the punishment and then hung out to dry after it.

Having read his interview he comes across as a very nice bloke who has been shafted on so many occasions and one wouldn't be surprised if he was bitter about things yet he isn't. You just hope the people who stabbed him in the back can live with themselves.

 

[silentstriker]

It's so predictably sad which side people come down on based solely on the team they support.

If you had a problem with Lehmann or Gibbs, you should have a problem with monkey taunts, end of. Forget the Harby incident, focus on the crowds in India - people were even defending that, saying it was a complement. I mean...really? Are you serious?

/sigh

 

[silentstriker]

Was the genesis of my and most right thinking people's hatred of the simpering Indian cricket culture.

I think the problem is much deeper than merely cricket culture.

 

[BoyBrumby]

The history of racism has many other connotations that causes depersonalizes an entire group of people. It's a special case of dehumanization that has a very nasty history (both in society and in cricket) and unfortunately its effect are still prevalent today (directly and indirectly), and so rightfully so, the governing body has decided that it requires a special category of punishment.

I'd probably put homophobic sledging in the same category too, for the same reason as you suggest about racial taunting.

It's obviously not likely to be as big a problem as racist abuse, because there's currently only one out gay male cricketer (although it's statistically likely there are others) but I'd put it on a par for the similar intent of abusing someone for what they happen to be.

 

[silentstriker]

I'd probably put homophobic sledging in the same category too, for the same reason as you suggest about racial taunting.

It's obviously not likely to be as big a problem as racist abuse, because there's currently only one out gay male cricketer (although it's statistically likely there are others) but I'd put it on a par for the similar intent of abusing someone for what they happen to be.

Yea, I'd agree with that. I think in most places in sports, it's accepted that racist abuse is not on, but there's a lot of teenage 'locker room' slang that permeates (all) sport. So I think that's going to be tougher to root out - especially as there's many fewer gay (and almost none who are open about it, understandably so) sportspeople than, say, black. I mean even in the US, some idiot football player said that if some gay player came out on his team, he'd have an 'accident' in training camp. It's pretty sad, but I think attitudes are changing at a VERY rapid pace (just look at gay marriage).

 

[Cevno]

Of course you can. Was the genesis of my and most right thinking people's hatred of the simpering Indian cricket culture. But to say, as you do, that the only time St Sachin of the Cochlea Implant was accused of selective deafness was later in Gilchrist's book it utter bull****. It was said at the time.

Whether he did change his story or not is a different thing to whether the allegation was made against him at the time. Ftr I believe he did. Fits his self-righteousness down pat.

lol. Mixing up various topics and going on a subjective rant to get definite conclusions ftw!

It's so predictably sad which side people come down on based solely on the team they support.

If you had a problem with Lehmann or Gibbs, you should have a problem with monkey taunts, end of. Forget the Harby incident, focus on the crowds in India - people were even defending that, saying it was a complement. I mean...really? Are you serious?

/sigh

No one has said what you are going on about FTR.

It's like bringing in Facebook friends and what they were saying into a debate here.

 

[ankitj]

It's so predictably sad which side people come down on based solely on the team they support.

If you had a problem with Lehmann or Gibbs, you should have a problem with monkey taunts, end of. Forget the Harby incident, focus on the crowds in India - people were even defending that, saying it was a complement. I mean...really? Are you serious?

/sigh

I don't know who you mean. There was unequivocal condemnation across all media of that behavior.

And for taking sides based on your team, happens all the time. Remember the Ian Bell run out incident?

 

[Cevno]

I think the problem is much deeper than merely cricket culture.

Yeah, most of the public is still unaware about the history behind it and International connotations of their actions.

There was widespread condemnation of the behavior though and it hasn't happened since or didn't happen much before that even. The players would have come out more individually, i guess but they did as a team and as a board.

 

[silentstriker]

It's like bringing in Facebook friends and what they were saying into a debate here.

I don't know who you mean. There was unequivocal condemnation across all media of that behavior.

I'm not pointing a finger at you. Check out that thread mate.

And for taking sides based on your team, happens all the time. Remember the Ian Bell run out incident?

That's my point of course. I'm not claiming the Indian fans are alone, or worse, in that regard by any means.

 

[CWB304]

I think the problem is much deeper than merely cricket culture.

Damn straight. The malign and persistent legacy of casteism is blinding far too many Indians to just how far behind modern thinking they are on these issues. In fact some of the defences that I've heard and read made over the years about the unbelievably crude and brutal crowd taunting of Symonds and others are leading me to the perhaps heretical conclusion that the disgraceful comments, which Gavaskar made about the connection between the behaviour of the Kingston crowd and the anthropological development of its constituents, might have been more appropriately directed closer to home.

 

[silentstriker]

Yeah, most of the public is still unaware about the history behind it and International connotations of their actions.

There was widespread condemnation of the behavior though and it hasn't happened since or didn't happen much before that even. The players would have come out more individually, i guess but they did as a team and as a board.

You mean denying it happened in Vadodara and then saying it's a language misunderstanding and not a racial taunt when it was caught on camera at a later game? Yea, that's a strong stance all right.

 

[Burgey]

lol. Mixing up various topics and going on a subjective rant to get definite conclusions ftw!



No one has said what you are going on about FTR.

It's like bringing in Facebook friends and what they were saying into a debate here.

No Cevno, I specifically was talking about your and others revisionism that Tendulkar apparently changing his version was only brought up later in Gilchrist's book. It wasn't. It's a simple fact. Look at the thread, it was being talked over at the time. You sought to conflate different aspects with that point. Don't project it onto others.

 

[CWB304]

You mean denying it happened in Vadodara and then saying it's a language misunderstanding and not a racial taunt when it was caught on camera at a later game? Yea, that's a strong stance all right.

What I don't get is what exactly is gained by denying that what we all know happened, happened. Has kicking the can down the road ever solved any problem? Given all the background and context and subsequent evidence, it's crystal clear that Harbhajan called Symonds "monkey" and did so knowingly. Yet all these years later we're still getting this double talk.

 

[Cevno]

No Cevno, I specifically was talking about your and others revisionism that Tendulkar apparently changing his version was only brought up later in Gilchrist's book. It wasn't. It's a simple fact. Look at the thread, it was being talked over at the time. You sought to conflate different aspects with that point. Don't project it onto others.

Well you picked up on a post that was a response about what happened before the incident in Australia and how that impacts on what Harbhajan might have said or not, and then went on a rant about Sachin's self righteousness .......

If you want to talk about that then quote the post you are responding to with the points you want to respond too. I am not going to debate what you think of Sachin or Indian culture, because it is irrelevant.

 

[Cevno]

Damn straight. The malign and persistent legacy of casteism is blinding far too many Indians to just how far behind modern thinking they are on these issues. In fact some of the defences that I've heard and read made over the years about the unbelievably crude and brutal crowd taunting of Symonds and others are leading me to the perhaps heretical conclusion that the disgraceful comments, which Gavaskar made about the connection between the behaviour of the Kingston crowd and the anthropological development of its constituents, might have been more appropriately directed closer to home.

FFS it has **** all to do with Casteism. I am not defending Casteism and it is a menace which is as worse as racism but you just can't link the 2 up and what the crowds did for no reason. Ad then linking up Gavaskar to it is bizarre.

Monty 'racially abused' by Australian crowd | Mail Online

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_stupid-indian-monty-abused_1063926

What would you put this down too? Or the things Harbhajan had to hear about his Turban?

 

[Burgey]

Well you picked up on a post that was a response about what happened before the incident in Australia and how that impacts on what Harbhajan might have said or not, and then went on a rant about Sachin's self righteousness .......

If you want to talk about that then quote the post you are responding to with the points you want to respond too. I am not going to debate what you think of Sachin or Indian culture, because it is irrelevant.

Matters as much as what you think about it, not that I mentioned anything other than Indian cricket. I'm as interested in Indian culture generally as I am in visiting an inert under water sea mount.

Would you prefer not to discuss it at all?

 

[Cevno]

You mean denying it happened in Vadodara and then saying it's a language misunderstanding and not a racial taunt when it was caught on camera at a later game? Yea, that's a strong stance all right.

Yeah, that was so stupid and they got round up and bashed for it by the media quickly. After which they issued a condemnation and dealt with the mischief makers and even registered cases against them.

The team issued a statement condemning it straightaway though.

 

[Cevno]

Matters as much as what you think about it, not that I mentioned anything other than Indian cricket. I'm as interested in Indian culture generally as I am in visiting an inert under water sea mount.

Would you prefer not to discuss it at all?

Well, is there a point in discussing it with you really? When you are going to use people being straight and righteous against them as proof? And in turn use that as as a proof against someone else to prove that he was definetely lying? All this in order to arrive at a even bigger conclusiong about Indian cricket culture as a whole.....