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***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE

Who do you think will win?!


  • Total voters
    88

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I think what's overblown is the players' reacting in fear of getting hit on the pads. But I agree it has a lot to do with the conditions in this series.
Yeah that was what I was referring to. Prior keeping leg-side of the ball to the extent that he missed one hitting middle stump is nothing to do with DRS and everything to do with bad batting. If you're worried about the ball hitting your pads, try hitting it with your bat like you're supposed to.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
IMO the more interesting DRS-related development in the last 6 months is the way umpires seem to be a lot more trigger happy when it comes to lbws. I seem to remember a lot of marginal calls going the way of the bowlers in the Australia-South Africa series.
 

Burgey

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Yeah that was what I was referring to. Prior keeping leg-side of the ball to the extent that he missed one hitting middle stump is nothing to do with DRS and everything to do with bad batting. If you're worried about the ball hitting your pads, try hitting it with your bat like you're supposed to.
And ironically the best way to make clean contact is not to stay leg side of the ball.

I think theres a few blokes who are mind ****ed ATM.
 

Viscount Tom

International Debutant
Apparently ol' Thorpey's been getting the Lion's batsmen to bat in the nets with only the back pad on so they learn to play without the bat more.

Might be worth a try with the regular England team, mind you I think the squads link up after this test anyway.
 

hazsa19

International Regular
IMO the more interesting DRS-related development in the last 6 months is the way umpires seem to be a lot more trigger happy when it comes to lbws. I seem to remember a lot of marginal calls going the way of the bowlers in the Australia-South Africa series.
Yup, still can't believe the KP lbw decision by Taufel. It looked all wrong on height and line, never looked out for a second. Bizarrely, that one annoys me more than the Trott one tbh.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Story of the series so far for England today. An excellent effort from the bowlers but once again let down by our batsmen, who tbf have been very consistent in recent times. The English batsmen are struggling in the light of some excellent spin bowling from Pakistan too, don't want to overlook how well they've bowled.

Strauss has been gritty, more positive, determined, and does seem to have come to terms with things in the middle thanks to the time he has spent out there. Unfortunately Bell and Morgan could not do the same, and KP, who was looking optimistic, unfortunately played all round one. Despite his protestations and clear disgruntlement on the changing room balcony, it wasn't the worst decision going around, although he could have expected the benefit of the doubt.

I'm surprised Bopara wasn't selected, with the team failing three times out of four innings with the bat (looks like now being four out of five), would such patience be afforded to the bowling unit should they perform so far below par for a couple of Tests, or do the batsmen have enough credit in the bank to gain some leeway ?

The effect DRS is having on batting strategies and methods is clearly a topic worthy of its own thread.

England's lack of form with the bat has also had an adverse effect on Umpire Taufel, the usually reliable Aussie is showing his own signs of ringrust.

Final mention to Broad and Anderson, outstanding once again, ably supported by Monty. Fair play to Shafiq too who seems to enhance his credentials in that number six slot with each innings. U.Akmal's wait must continue.

It's refreshing to see batsmen not having everything there on way, but as has been the case in recent Tests, with a pitch that offers something and decent bowling attacks exploiting conditions, there are few batsmen in the world coming up with any convincing answers or methods in how to succeed.
 

Jacknife

International Captain
Yup, still can't believe the KP lbw decision by Taufel. It looked all wrong on height and line, never looked out for a second. Bizarrely, that one annoys me more than the Trott one tbh.
Yes the umpires seem to be giving the benefit of doubt to the bowlers this series.
 

Jacknife

International Captain
I've got a feeling (hunch?) that england's tail might wag hard here, and get them a lead of 100 plus. A few swipes from a decent lower order anchored by Strauss would see them do it pretty sharply too.
Hopefully that will happen, then again we could also be all out for 125 as well. Like you say, if Strauss can reestablish himself tomorrow and the likes of Broad and Swann try to smash some runs and not just hang around, it may be possible, another Broad half century would do wonders from a England point of view.
 

Jacknife

International Captain
You're right, and I apologise. I feel so strongly about this subject, and am so desperate to shake the selectors and my fellow England fans out of their self-induced complacency as to the adequacy of our middle order batting, that I occasionally go too far.

You can take all future posts on this subject as if they had been prefaced by the following, (which will go unwritten, as it is a bit of a mouthful):

"In an ideal world, in which hackneyed assumptions about 'weight of runs' were set aside in favour of a realistic acceptance of consistent patterns of underperformance under certain conditions by some senior players over a number of years..."

KP and Bell would both be dropped for the next Test

Eventually, the patterns I've identified will become conventional wisdom, and the people accusing me of being "as stupid as stupid gets", or of hating on Bell because he screwed my sister/girlfriend/pet, will all too predictably crawl out of the woodwork, and jump on one of the many bandwagons they spend their lives waiting for.
I'd love to here about all these instances of consistent patterns of underperformance your talking about, seriously lets here about them.

I mean how does one go about picking a side, do you put 15 names in a hat and pick out 11 and hope for the best, or do you take into consideration how said player has been playing in the past year or so, look at the last couple of series and take it from there.
 
Last edited:

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Excellent post, kind of what I was getting at before this test in the "changes to the English team" thread. But again the focus will be on Morgan and someone will come in for him and Pietersen and Bell will stay based on past or as PEWS put it "bonus runs" and nothing will change..
The focus will be on Morgan because in addition to being **** here, he's been average to poor up to this point, whereas the others have at least shown previously that they can score runs at Test level. 8-)
 

smash84

The Tiger King
My argument only loses all credibility in a parallel universe in which I have said what you are trying to claim I said. Clearly you either have major reading comprehension problems or are one of those tedious people one occasionally encounters on Internet forums who prefers to argue against not other people's genuine positions but ones they have invented at random for their own benefit, i.e. "straw men".

I have made clear on a number of occasions not only that I do not rate Morgan as a Test class batsman but that I couldn't care less whether or not he's replaced. I never said he ought to be retained, but that I would drop KP and Bell BEFORE dropping him because dropping them and finding reliable batters for the 4 and 5 slots would go further to solving England's batting problems than making a meh change like plugging in Bopara for Morgan.

The point I have been hammering away at in multiple posts is that dropping an inexperienced number 6 batsman, who has not played this quality of spin bowling in these sorts of conditions before and from whom - given those circumstances - any reasonable selector would have looked upon significant scoring contributions as a bonus, is absolutely the wrong response when infinitely more experienced nos. 4 and 5 batsmen, upon whom the team really are counting for runs, are doing no better (averaging around 10 runs apiece).

If a reputable surveyor told you that your house was structurally undermined, and needed to be reinforced or it would collapse, would you spend your remaining money on this critical reinforcement work, or think, "no, I'll wing it; I reckon I can get another few years out of this structure yet", and spend money you could have spent reinforcing the building on a fancy firm of interior decorators?

Responding to England's atrociously inept batting on this tour by replacing Morgan is like spending money on the posh interior decorating firm rather than on the structure itself. Fixing NECESSARY elements like KP (4) and Bell (5) is a far greater priority than replacing one CONTINGENT element who may or may not come good in Morgan with another one in Bopara or whoever.

Morgan is batting at six, FFS! Each time he's been called out to bat, much better and more experienced players than him have already failed miserably,swearing at the heavens, cursing the umpires and DRS, and generally doing everything BUT facing up to their own inadequacies as they walked back to the pavilion. Notwithstanding the fact that I don't rate Morgan and think he should be axed, I reckon that making him a scapegoat when others who should have been better equipped to succeed than him have failed just as miserably would be bloody unfair.

Broad has just come of age; he has worked hard and for me now has the tools to change Test matches on a consistent basis with both bat and ball. That is what an all rounder is and that is why for me he could become the first genuine allrounder since the great 80s quartet (Flintoff for a variety of reasons couldn't do it consistently; Kallis' bowling has never really been more than fourth seamer stuff; Watson for me is decent but doesn't really have the wow factor a true allrounder should have).

The guy has been absolute brilliant on this tour; his bowling has been world class and his 58* was the most convincing England batting performance I've seen so far. I honestly reckon he could have got a century had not Bell and Prior wasted reviews which meant that Monty couldn't review the poor decision he copped.

Yet Broad may as well have not bothered, for all the support he's had from the likes of Bell and KP. If he's pissed off with the batters, you can be sure his ire is not directed at Morgan, but at 4 and 5, who have contributed nothing. I predicted their poor performance and was called stupid by people like you. I also predicted that even when they continued to be inept right to the bitter end, mugs like you would retort with the old "they're just having a bad series" shtick. It's not your fault, so keep going. Keep pretending that I have said what I haven't said:

"Look at that moron, he thinks Morgan is better than KP or Bell!" (s******, s******)

Those who have actually read my posts, and are intelligent enough to understand what I've written, know better. And one day even you will have to accept that I was right, and Bell and KP aren't just having a bad series. The truth is, they aren't all that.
Oh good, we're resorting to insults now.

Onto the ignore list you go.
haha......dude you have to admit that his predictions for the series are coming true with the analysis that he is doing. Seems like CWB is not going with only a hunch :p

CWB needs weed, if he think's England are making themselves look pathetic...
do you think England are not making themselves look pathetic?

Must say I'm lovin' CWB's posts. the bloke can reason.
This
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
There's a serious dip in quality of batting stocks around the world, or maybe they're just being exposed as the pretenders they've always been. OTOH, I think only South Africa have a couple of batsmen young enough and capable of excelling in all conditions (Amla and AB).
 

Daemon

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There's a serious dip in quality of batting stocks around the world, or maybe they're just being exposed as the pretenders they've always been. OTOH, I think only South Africa have a couple of batsmen young enough and capable of excelling in all conditions (Amla and AB).
Maybe the bowling just got better
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Bowling + pitches.

Far too early to say batting stocks are in "decline", there are still a swathe of fine (but not all-time great) batsmen around the world in their late twenties or early thirties.
 

benchmark00

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Gee, I'll be missing you. A word of advice: if you don't like people questioning your intelligence, try responding to their posts with replies that firstly, are not complete non sequiturs. Secondly, make at least a bit of sense. And thirdly, at least betray some basic comprehension of what has been written, and attempt to address that. Cheers,


Can't help but agree 100%
 

Flametree

International 12th Man
Nice try.

....
Sometimes you just get a hunch, perhaps by the way someone moves their feet, or seems to have more time than his peers to play his shots, even if he hasn't put it all together and turned it into a consistent series of high scores in the county game. Vaughn was averaging in the 30s in county cricket when he was initially called up, yet he immediately took to Tests like a duck to water. There have been other examples, like Gower(?)
Michael Vaughan's average after 16 tests, spread over 28 months, in all conditions, was 30.7. Must have funny ducks where you live.
 

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