Kallis vs Sobers, Donald vs Steyn, Trott vs Pollock

[rza]

He'll be rated up there eventually. Give it time.

I think the younger cricket fans are starting to look at Kallis differently, and with good reason. The way I see it, 50 years from now people would be looking at Kallis the same way we look at Sobers. Very few people would have seen him play, and there'll be no case to make against him.

 

[Ruckus]

Longevity is about how long you can give your services to your side rather than how many Tests you actually play. South Africa played a lot more Tests in Kallis's time than the West Indies played in Sobers's, so Tests played is not exactly a fair comparison. Sobers actually had a longer career than Kallis has so far so, if anything, he gets more points in longevity.

I don't think that's entirely true. Longevity is basically a measure of consistency over time. There are two facets to that; one being how well the player adapts to the natural process of aging (and the various detriments that can go with it etc.), and the other being how well the player maintains form over an increasing number of matches. Therefore, it's going to be more impressive if a player is consistent over both a large number of matches and over a long period of time, as opposed to small numer of matches over a long period of time. It's about how long you can give your services to you side and how many tests you play in that time period (with some level of success).

 

[Spark]

The way Kallis bats today is quite different to how he batted 10 years ago though.

 

[rza]

Sobers > Kallis, because of his better batting and longevity
Donald = Steyn, IMO
Pollock >> Trott, because of his FC record

Pollock vs Hussey?

 

[rza]

How was Sobers' bowling longevity compared to Kallis' bowling longevity?

 

[marc71178]

That's what I think as well, yet people have Sobers in their All-Time XI for Batsmen or top 5 All-rounders of all-time, yet Kallis is not even in the top 30 for batsmen. How is it possible that Kallis is not number two just behind Sobers in the all-rounders list, yet there's not much to choose between the two?

It's clearly all a conspiracy against South Africans, nothing at all to do with how Sobers did it with bat AND ball at the same time.

 

[smash84]

It's clearly all a conspiracy against South Africans, nothing at all to do with how Sobers did it with bat AND ball at the same time.

You mean a bowling SR of 358 against Pakistan?

tbh I have yet to find a higher SR for a guy who is well known for his bowling.

Some valid points made by rza though.

Especially the one regarding Imran being the best

 

[Furball]

You mean a bowling SR of 358 against Pakistan?

tbh I have yet to find a higher SR for a guy who is well known for his bowling.

Some valid points made by rza though.

Especially the one regarding Imran being the best

Fantastically relevant, well done you.

 

[smash84]

Fantastically relevant, well done you.

I am not weldone

 

[L Trumper]

You mean a bowling SR of 358 against Pakistan?

tbh I have yet to find a higher SR for a guy who is well known for his bowling.

Some valid points made by rza though.

Especially the one regarding Imran being the best

Pak is at their weakest during 60s, and probably the worst team going around at that time. So most people obviously look into his superlative performances against Aus and Eng in different series with both ball and the bat.

Besides Sobers is the best batsman of his generation, and had very good series with the ball too. Kallis falls short in both these depts.

 

[Satguru]

You mean a bowling SR of 358 against Pakistan?

tbh I have yet to find a higher SR for a guy who is well known for his bowling.

Some valid points made by rza though.

Especially the one regarding Imran being the best

Yeah, Sobers' SR isnt defendable really... career SR of 92 is too damn high for any era. A better batsman than kallis, sure, but i dunno if he was a better bowler tbh. Seen plenty of good quality Sobers batting on youtube, but not much of his bowling. *goes to check robelinda's channel*

Btw, i agree too... Imran> all

 

[L Trumper]

Keith Miller >> Imran Khan

Miller can dance on water .. Haters can suck it

 

[smash84]

Keith Miller >> dancers

Miller can only dance on water .. Haters can suck it

Fixed

 

[smash84]

Pak is at their weakest during 60s, and probably the worst team going around at that time. So most people obviously look into his superlative performances against Aus and Eng in different series with both ball and the bat.

Besides Sobers is the best batsman of his generation, and had very good series with the ball too. Kallis falls short in both these depts.

A SR of 358 against Bangladesh would be pretty bad too.

Bowling 90 overs to get one wicket.

 

[marc71178]

On 8th February 1964, Sobers reached 4th in the world ratings with the ball.
At the same time he was ranked number 1 with the bat.

Nobody else has even come near to doing that.

For the last 12 years of his career he was ranked almost exclusively in the top 3 in the world with the bat and dipped out of the top 10 with the ball once or twice.

Nobody else has even come near to doing that.

That is why Sobers is ranked so much higher than anyone else, because he did both at the same time.

 

[miscer]

We know Samaraweera is not better than Ponting and stats confirm it. Samaraweera stats outside subcontinent are horrible, and only slightly improving after the SA series. So once again stats confirm that point.

If nature of pitches counts, then can we safely Kallis should be rated way higher than most batsmen since he played 50% of his matches in South Africa - statistically the best bowling conditions in the world?

Does anybody have a view on why Donald is rated higher than Steyn?

he averages 41 outside the SC (not including ZIM) so i dont understand how one can consider than "horrible." Samaraweera is criminally underrated. I'm not suggesting Sam>Ponting but Sam is a sri lankan great. it's sad how underrated he is.

 

[Satguru]

On 8th February 1964, Sobers reached 4th in the world ratings with the ball.
At the same time he was ranked number 1 with the bat.

Nobody else has even come near to doing that.

For the last 12 years of his career he was ranked almost exclusively in the top 3 in the world with the bat and dipped out of the top 10 with the ball once or twice.

Nobody else has even come near to doing that.

That is why Sobers is ranked so much higher than anyone else, because he did both at the same time.

If thats true,it is mighty impressive
What's Kallis' peak ranking as a bowler btw?

 

[Jarquis]

At Kallis' highest bowling rating, he was ranked 7th with the ball and 10th with the bat.
Though that doesn't necessarily mean 7th was the highest bowling rank he achieved.

Edit : Highest bowling rank was 6th, at which time he was 5th with the bat.

 

[Quaggas]

Kallis v Sobers Test Bowling

Kallis v Sobers Test Batting

Kallis v Sobers Test Allrounder

 

[Burgey]

You mean a bowling SR of 358 against Pakistan?

tbh I have yet to find a higher SR for a guy who is well known for his bowling.

Some valid points made by rza though.

Especially the one regarding Imran being the best

Pakistan was a joke then. Sobers was taking the piss.