***Official*** New Zealand in Australia 2011

[Spikey]

How is Cummins going to blow away something that doesn't exist?

oh sh -

 

[straw man]

So all this team discussion is interesting and all.... but perhaps a more important question is:

Why do so many of the Australian posters on this forum have animals for avatars?

Honestly, it's like a zoo in here sometimes

 

[Hurricane]

There have been a few tests recently where "50 runs" would have made the difference between winning and losing. Eg, SA v Aus, Zim v NZ (admittedly NZ weren't bowled out), and in NZ's recent history the win over Pakistan at Dunedin. I think NZ's best hope to beat Australia is to hope the pitch has a lot in it and it's a low-scoring game. Five bowlers won't be needed. Where you play 4 seamers, one tends to be underbowled and effectively offers very little, unless you have four out and out stars like the Windies used to (page one of the Clive Lloyd captaincy manual : stick the first two on for an hour, switch them over at drinks...).

Vettori's "dip" in form has lasted almost two years, and to me, he's a number 7 really. If we had a keeper like Prior or Dhoni, and/or a genuine number 8 like Broad/Bresnan then it might balance out. But we don't. England have no settled no. 6 batsman, a keeper who could happily bat at 6, and plenty of lower order allrounders (Broad, Bresnan, Swann). And yet they still play the 6+1+4 formula, and it's got them to no. 1 in the world.

Great post - Flem to respond to your points please.

 

[stephen]

So all this team discussion is interesting and all.... but perhaps a more important question is:

Why do so many of the Australian posters on this forum have animals for avatars?

Honestly, it's like a zoo in here sometimes

They're not all the same animals either. We have whales, monkeys, toads ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD and others.

 

[Metal Quality]

New Zealand in Australia 2011-12: Australia wait on injured Shane Watson and Mitchell Johnson | Cricket News | Australia v New Zealand | ESPN Cricinfo

Johnson added to the "injured" list so he might just be axed after all. They should really pick Copeland.

 

[Zinzan]

Kiwi left handers, like left handers from any team I would have said would have the most success against us. But hopefully with Cummins we have fixed that weakness. I don't see how Williamson could have much success at #3, especially when NZ are likely to be 1 down early. He likes to build his innings around spin so I would like to see him moved down to #4 and Taylor to #3. Taylor and McCullum are really the only batsman that could do damage against us. Guptill will get a few 30s, Vettori and Franklin might hang around. Ryder's flaws in his game will be exposed big time. So yeah I can't see how NZ will ever make it past 300 tbh.

For out batting, it really depends on the day. If the pitch has life in it, won't be surprised if we get out for 200-300. This is what will keep NZ in the game. Chris Martin though will be punished, again. NZ need to find another one of those consistent fast-medium bowlers that hits good areas, like Southee and Arnel, they are the ones to watch out for.

Lol, poor play all-round, at least know who's in the team brah

 

[straw man]

They're not all the same animals either. We have whales, monkeys, toads ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD and others.

+ bear, tiger, bird and Philip Hughes (raaah). It's like everyone's turned up at the party with similar but not-quite-matching clothes. You Australians are so cute

 

[Hurricane]

I think all the noise is because of Boult - how good will he be? No one knows. Given it took a while for Southee to learn the ropes I don't see Trent doing anything dramatic in this series if he plays.

I reckon if Southee has averaged 40 then Boult will probably`average around 40 for his first year or so too.

I don't see the point of playing him as a 5th bowler unless he is really going to make a difference.

The following point I will make is a weak one - but it is what I am thinking -

Southee will average around 30 on this tour if he is lucky,

Boult will not out perform Tim.

What` makes it a hard decision is that Brownlie is unproven - and he didn't fill me with 100% confidence when I watched him bat.

Still prefer 6 bats.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Still prefer 6 bats.

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Vettori, Young

That's 7.

 

[Athlai]

Didn't Southee get a 5fer in his first match? Also reckon Boult is further along than Southee was when he first played international cricket.

 

[BeeGee]

Sticking yourself in a situation like this is a big problem. Vettori will HAVE to bowl a big chunk of the overs. If it is a seamer's day you're going to give away another 100+ runs in an innings, easily. In Australia it's nearly always easier for a seamer to take a wicket than a spinner. That choice is a significant advantage even if you've got a class spinner, NZ have Vettori, who's average. At stages the Aussies will be looking to dominate a bowler, Martin or Bracewell are likely targets. Southee will just naturally have good days and bad days. The extra variety and choice will be a big help. NZ were vulnerable against Zimbabwe when they picked Patel and he bowled turd, Vettori's lack of penetration was shown up and they were in big trouble. In Australia the game will run away faster.

Hardly. He took 8 wickets in that match and won the man of the match award for it.

Cummins takes 7 wickets in the SA test and has everyone singing his praises. Vettori takes 8 and you say his lack of penetration was shown up. It's a funny old world.

 

[Hurricane]

Didn't Southee get a 5fer in his first match? Also reckon Boult is further along than Southee was when he first played international cricket.

Because England didn't give him any respect and he had a surprise factor which quickly wore off.

I don't think Australia will be as loose against Boult.

 

[Athlai]

Because England didn't give him any respect and he had a surprise factor which quickly wore off.

I don't think Australia will be as loose against Boult.

They were pretty loose against Philander and Finn in recent memory.

 

[SteveNZ]

Ah, everyone knows he's better against the spinners... Can work them around easily and puts the loose ball away. Did well in India.

Anyone person from NZ agree? I know I don't. Yes, by circumstance he came in against spin in the runs he scored against India. But he's every bit as competent against pace from what I have seen. Very accomplished back foot player against pace, doesn't score heavily down the ground but not a big issue

 

[Hurricane]

^It's too early in his career to say that he is outstanding against spin. Especially when he is really yet to be tested by a doosra or a wrist spinner with variations. But take it as a complement from Tum Tum that he thinks Kane is good against any type of bowling. IIRC he made up his mind about Kane after one over in an ODI.

 

[Furball]

Because England didn't give him any respect and he had a surprise factor which quickly wore off.

I don't think Australia will be as loose against Boult.

Have you watched much of Australia in the last couple of years?

 

[Hurricane]

They were pretty loose against Philander and Finn in recent memory.

True they were loose against Finn good point didn't watch Philander.

 

[_Ed_]

Also reckon Boult is further along than Southee was when he first played international cricket.

That's the key point, I think. Boult's 22, while Southee was 19.

And Boult's played 20 FC games. Southee even now has only played 37, and that includes 13 Tests, so he would have only had a very small handful of FC games under his belt before that Test debut.

Not saying Boult's going to take the world by storm, but I do think he can and will be fairly effective straight away.

 

[Dan]

I was just thinking, with Watson and Marsh possibly out through injury, Ponting's probably safe for the time being. I don't think the selectors will debut a new opener (Warner), and replace Ponting if two of the top batsmen are ruled out. If Marsh was fit, then the decision could have been made.

2 debuting batsmen in the top 4 wouldn't be the greatest idea ever.

Hopefully though, Harris gets back on the park, alongside Cummins and Copeland and we have a decent pace attack.

 

[Woodster]

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Vettori, Young

That's 7.

The depth of the batting there would worry me greatly. As soon as the Aussies capture the first four wickets, they'll be confident that the end may be close. I think Vettori has done a very good job over the years for NZ in the mid-lower order, he knows his limited areas to score and sticks to them. But I'm sure they eyes of Harris and Cummins would light up should he walk out at six.

Imo, one of the few ways in which NZ could play five bowlers and still be pretty competitive is to convince McCullum to re-take the gloves and bat him at six with DV at seven.