*Official* England in India

[Daemon]

What's with all the elitism? ODIs are gun.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

What's with all the elitism? ODIs are gun.

It isn't elitism, just tests are more important in this country and always will be. A 5 match tour with no tests is always going to be frowned upon. In the grand scheme of things it is a pointless tour. My thoughts would be exactly the same had we won 5-0 and not lost 5-0. Same goes for the Aussie series next year, would rather have an extra test v SA.

 

[hang on]

Yep, the players and public in England don't really care about one day cricket as much as the rest of the world do. What a surprise that a pointless money making tour isn't treated properly by them.

the players? really?!

would imagine that the players are far more professional than that, especially those who only play in the odi team and can thus only represent england - presumably the highest aspiration and honour, though in these benighted days of 20-20, one never truly knows - in the odi format.

out of curiosity, could india's (and also pak's and lanka's in other tours) fixation with the shorter forms of the games be used to 'excuse' their ****ty performances in tests in england this summer past, keeping in mind issues such as cricket overload, post world cup ennui, having attained top test rank etc; essentially that it was a tour too far for many of the players and that many just couldn't be arsed? and thus were rightly towelled by an excellent english team.

 

[centurymaker]

the players? really?!

would imagine that the players are far more professional than that, especially those who only play in the odi team and can thus only represent england - presumably the highest aspiration and honour, though in these benighted days of 20-20, one never truly knows - in the odi format.

out of curiosity, could india's (and also pak's and lanka's in other tours) fixation with the shorter forms of the games be used to 'excuse' their ****ty performances in tests in england this summer past, keeping in mind issues such as cricket overload, post world cup ennui, having attained top test rank etc; essentially that it was a tour too far for many of the players and that many just couldn't be arsed? and thus were rightly towelled by an excellent english team.

obviously it was a factor.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

the players? really?!

would imagine that the players are far more professional than that, especially those who only play in the odi team and can thus only represent england - presumably the highest aspiration and honour, though in these benighted days of 20-20, one never truly knows - in the odi format.

out of curiosity, could india's (and also pak's and lanka's in other tours) fixation with the shorter forms of the games be used to 'excuse' their ****ty performances in tests in england this summer past, keeping in mind issues such as cricket overload, post world cup ennui, having attained top test rank etc; essentially that it was a tour too far for many of the players and that many just couldn't be arsed? and thus were rightly towelled by an excellent english team.

So looking at those performances do you honestly think the players were 100% switched onto that series?

I certainly don't. Sloppy fielding, lazy batting and poor running between the wickets tells me they were just going through the motions and not a side who were up for it at all.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It isn't elitism, just tests are more important in this country and always will be. A 5 match tour with no tests is always going to be frowned upon. In the grand scheme of things it is a pointless tour. My thoughts would be exactly the same had we won 5-0 and not lost 5-0. Same goes for the Aussie series next year, would rather have an extra test v SA.

There's a simple pride in performance that is missing with what went on throughout this tour, though.

You look at India, and one of the reasons that they got to number 1 in Test cricket was because they were used to winning, and a lot of that was developed in shorter forms. Winning becomes a habit, and you want to bring young players into that environment - they can avoid some scrutiny when they fail a few times early in their career while the team is winning. Instead, you have people raising eyebrows at things like Bairstow's shot last night.

You can talk all you want about "not caring", "indifference", but teams that are trying to set themselves to be the best in the world and a dominant force don't put in limp performances and have their tummy tickled over five games, such as what happened here, no matter the format.

 

[hang on]

So looking at those performances do you honestly think the players were 100% switched onto that series?

I certainly don't. Sloppy fielding, lazy batting and poor running between the wickets tells me they were just going through the motions and not a side who were up for it at all.

similarly, wouldn't sloppy fielding, poor body language, dreadful fitness, general air of disinterest from experienced players point to the indians not really giving a damn about the test series this summer?

i prefer to think of it like this: an excellent england team did not allow india to pick themselves off the floor once they were down, thus leading to their general defeatist hangdoggedness on the field. ditto for this current odi series.

 

[hang on]

There's a simple pride in performance that is missing with what went on throughout this tour, though.

You look at India, and one of the reasons that they got to number 1 in Test cricket was because they were used to winning, and a lot of that was developed in shorter forms. Winning becomes a habit, and you want to bring young players into that environment - they can avoid some scrutiny when they fail a few times early in their career while the team is winning. Instead, you have people raising eyebrows at things like Bairstow's shot last night.

You can talk all you want about "not caring", "indifference", but teams that are trying to set themselves to be the best in the world and a dominant force don't put in limp performances and have their tummy tickled over five games, such as what happened here, no matter the format.

well said. and that is why aussie were the best. an attitude towards winning that gave that team of unbelievable talent that extra little bit, which, to be perfectly honest, they did not really need!

 

[flibbertyjibber]

similarly, wouldn't sloppy fielding, poor body language, dreadful fitness, general air of disinterest from experienced players point to the indians not really giving a damn about the test series this summer?

i prefer to think of it like this: an excellent england team did not allow india to pick themselves off the floor once they were down, thus leading to their general defeatist hangdoggedness on the field. ditto for this current odi series.

Yeah, but by the end in both series the players on the losing sides couldn't care less and just wanted to be on the plane home. The collapses in the 4th test and the 5th one dayer last night showed that.

 

[ganeshran]

Things will change when England start doing good in ODIs.Not only will fans start liking ODIs, they will also retroactively convince themselves to have been much more supportive of the format all along.

It happened with Indian fans too. The percentage of fans who considered Tests as the most important format was much higher when the Indian side was doing well in it.

 

[ganeshran]

Always going to be the case. Presumably we'll see a raging turner in the first test followed by roads for the rest of the series?

Most probably we will see slight turners that can ensure 5 days of play. BCCI usually makes a match go to all 5 days so that the broadcasters can make more money out of it.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Things will change when England start doing good in ODIs.Not only will fans start liking ODIs, they will also retroactively convince themselves to have been much more supportive of the format all along.

It happened with Indian fans too. The percentage of fans who considered Tests as the most important format was much higher when the Indian side was doing well in it.

Even if we get better at them the only time it matters is the World Cup anyway. Winning that would be nice but I am realistic enough to know it won't happen as there are too many sides who put ODI's as the main priority whereas we regard tests as the holy grail over here and rightly so.

 

[ganeshran]

Yeah, but by the end in both series the players on the losing sides couldn't care less and just wanted to be on the plane home. The collapses in the 4th test and the 5th one dayer last night showed that.

The same excuse can be applied to Indian players too. You are getting the cause and effect mixed up here. Players arent performing badly because they are lethargic, rather they are lethargic because they are performing badly and that is having an effect on their confidence levels.

Nothing succeeds like success

 

[Kohli_fan]

come of the hour come of MS a great performance once again in all departments just way too strong for the English

 

[irfan]

Meaningless tour or not, Dhoni's average this series is ∞ - WAFG

 

[Spark]

The same excuse can be applied to Indian players too. You are getting the cause and effect mixed up here. Players arent performing badly because they are lethargic, rather they are lethargic because they are performing badly and that is having an effect on their confidence levels.

Nothing succeeds like success

Why does it have to be one directly causes the other? As far as I'm concerned, the two are linked - there almost certainly would have been some lack-of-care factor to begin with, and as they kept getting hammered that would have been inflated exponentially.

It happened at the end of the post-Ashes ODIs too. You could see, just in the way they batted, that they more or less stopped giving a toss by the final ODI.

 

[ganeshran]

Even if we get better at them the only time it matters is the World Cup anyway. Winning that would be nice but I am realistic enough to know it won't happen as there are too many sides who put ODI's as the main priority whereas we regard tests as the holy grail over here and rightly so.

I dont think so. Sports fans all over the world bask in the reflected glory of the teams they support. People want to be associated with a team that is doing well and avoid teams that arent.

The fact that English players are doing well in tests makes fans put higher emphasis on the format because it gives them the prestige of being associated with a great team. If England starts doing well in ODIs and poorly in tests, it is natural that the majority of fans would prefer watching their ODI team play and consequently prefer the format more.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

In-fight turbulence | England Cricket News, Fixtures, Results | Sky Sports

 

[Kohli_fan]

Why does it have to be one directly causes the other? As far as I'm concerned, the two are linked - there almost certainly would have been some lack-of-care factor to begin with, and as they kept getting hammered that would have been inflated exponentially.

Easy to say now after a 5-0 hammering that there was a lack of care factor! But going by the fact that England have said they want to be seen as the best side in the world in all surfaces and all forms of the game! then playing the world champions in their own backyard then if you do not care about such a series, frankly you are in the wrong profession!

England were just not good enough and were humilated plain and simple as another poster said winning breeds energy had England won this series say 3-2 I don't think we would be hearing how they didn't care about this series, quite the opposite in fact!

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I dont think so. Sports fans all over the world bask in the reflected glory of the teams they support. People want to be associated with a team that is doing well and avoid teams that arent.

The fact that English players are doing well in tests makes fans put higher emphasis on the format because it gives them the prestige of being associated with a great team. If England starts doing well in ODIs and poorly in tests, it is natural that the majority of fans would prefer watching their ODI team play and consequently prefer the format more.

No, I think you would find there would be an outcry in England asking why we were so good at ODI's 20/20 and rubbish in tests. It is part of the English history that tests are more important. Always have been and always will be over here. Maybe not elsewhere but in England this is the case.