*Official* - India in West Indies

[akilana]

Even if the balls faced is comparable. If they're not scoring against Zaheer and scoring off the bowler at the other end, then they've done the job against Zaheer. The goal of a test bowler is to pick up wickets. If he's just containing the batsman it's not a victory for the bowler.

I don't know what other bowlers have got to do with this. It's pretty simple. It's the runs scored against Zaheer divided by dismissals by him.

 

[Cevno]

Even if the balls faced is comparable. If they're not scoring against Zaheer and scoring off the bowler at the other end, then they've done the job against Zaheer. The goal of a test bowler is to pick up wickets. If he's just containing the batsman it's not a victory for the bowler.

These are the averages of scores they have been dismissed at,when they have been dismissed by Zaheer -

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ate=results;type=bowling;view=batsman_summary

Smith is almost half as others in this.

Interesting he has got Bell 5 times too.

 

[vcs]

Even if the balls faced is comparable. If they're not scoring against Zaheer and scoring off the bowler at the other end, then they've done the job against Zaheer. The goal of a test bowler is to pick up wickets. If he's just containing the batsman it's not a victory for the bowler.

Yep, good point. Still it says that Zaheer gets them out at about the same rate in terms of balls bowled per dismissal. Maybe they also have better partners to keep them away from the strike when Zaheer's bowling?

 

[vcs]

Can't believe he even appealed for that, let alone so vociferously. Desperate stuff.

 

[vcs]

These are the averages of scores they have been dismissed at,when they have been dismissed by Zaheer -

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Smith is almost half as others in this.

Interesting he has got Bell 5 times too.

Yeah this is an interesting one. Don't know how to interpret it though. I guess Smith being an opener hurts him in this exercise. For example, if Sanga comes in at 1/50 with the first wicket being taken by a spinner, he might have a chance to get to 25-30 without facing Zaheer at all, in which case you can't blame Zaheer for not getting him for a low score. Probably he comes back and gets him in his second spell. You can see McIntosh, Strauss, Smith are all averaging in the teens in that table, all are openers and have to face him first up.

 

[Uppercut]

That's such a stupid statistic. I don't know why they list it.

 

[vcs]

Disappointing session, after starting so well. Can't see a result from here.

 

[Cevno]

Never know with the West Indies though.

Need 2 wickets early and then anything is possible with the rest.

 

[Uppercut]

You have to think the West Indies timed the chase badly, losing wickets trying to attack Praveen and Ishant bowling with the new ball then having to block out some pretty harmless bowling from the rest of the attack in the afternoon because they couldn't risk losing any more. There are no powerplays here, you don't get a bonus for attacking when the bowling is at its most dangerous early on.

If they'd kept a wicket or two more in hand things could have got really nasty for Dhoni once Praveen and Ishant finished their spells.

 

[centurymaker]

Often, batsmen play out the top bowler/s and then cash in against the weaker ones so an avg of 27 against zaheer is probably like averging 40 against india.

The number of balls faced by the three of them off Zaheer is also very comparable.. 300 for Sanga, 284 for Smith, and 290 for Strauss. Will have to look up some scorecards because I can't remember him troubling Sanga all that much..

To back up my point-

Tendulkar v/s steyn in the 5 tests last year.

6 runs /13 balls- dismissed
26 off 32 balls
20/42
12/12 - dismissed
29/48
1 /4
0/1 - dismissed
23/83 – perfect example of playing out a top bowler
5/18

Total 122 runs/253 balls
Avg: 122/3 dismissals = 40.7 against steyn
Avg against SA- 539 runs/7 dimissals = 77

Although tendulkar avg’d 77 against SA in those 5 tests, his avg against steyn was only 40.7
He was most successful against Morkel.

 

[kingpin]

Dire...........I only care about ishant's 10 wicket haul now!!

 

[vcs]

Their tailenders can dead-bat a bit if it comes to that, which is why I am pessimistic. The weather is also nice and sunny and the movement seems to have gone, just the odd bit of inconsistent bounce. Probably should have batted quicker yesterday.

 

[Cevno]

You have to think the West Indies timed the chase badly, losing wickets trying to attack Praveen and Ishant bowling with the new ball then having to block out some pretty harmless bowling from the rest of the attack in the afternoon because they couldn't risk losing any more. There are no powerplays here, you don't get a bonus for attacking when the bowling is at its most dangerous early on.

If they'd kept a wicket or two more in hand things could have got really nasty for Dhoni once Praveen and Ishant finished their spells.

Tbf, Harbhajan may not be the most threatening at the moment, but he is hard to score quick of and can contain well.

 

[vcs]

You have to think the West Indies timed the chase badly, losing wickets trying to attack Praveen and Ishant bowling with the new ball then having to block out some pretty harmless bowling from the rest of the attack in the afternoon because they couldn't risk losing any more. There are no powerplays here, you don't get a bonus for attacking when the bowling is at its most dangerous early on.

If they'd kept a wicket or two more in hand things could have got really nasty for Dhoni once Praveen and Ishant finished their spells.

Well, in Barath's case he was undone by very good bowling, Simmons is probably just not upto it, and Sarwan is in horrific form. Don't think it was necessarily a tactical thing.

 

[akilana]

These are the averages of scores they have been dismissed at,when they have been dismissed by Zaheer -

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Smith is almost half as others in this.

Interesting he has got Bell 5 times too.

This is a flawed method I believe because it just shows you the average for the innings when the batsman got dismissed by Zaheer. It ignores what a batsman did in other innings when he didn't get dismissed by Zaheer.. Eg.. batsmanX gets out to duck seven times in a row to Zaheer and smashes him in the next three innings and didn't get out to Zaheer.. it won't improve his average in innings when he got dismissed by Zaheer. His average for innings when he got out to Zaheer remains 0.

Tbh, this is a useless stats

see for example
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Cevno]

This is a flawed method I believe because it just shows you the average for the innings when the batsman got dismissed by Zaheer. It ignores what a batsman did in other innings when he didn't get dismissed by Zaheer.. Eg.. batsmanX gets out to duck seven times in a row to Zaheer and smashes him in the next three innings and didn't get out to Zaheer.. it won't improve his average in innings when he got dismissed by Zaheer. His average for innings when he got out to Zaheer remains 0.

Tbh, this is a useless stats

see for example
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And that is exactly what i was intending to show by posting that Stat.

Read the first line of my post and the posts preceding it . That stat was marginally useful in the conversation we were having preceding it.

You have a point though with regards to other innings but i wasn't claiming otherwise either. Was more talking about perceptions.

 

[nsniks]

Harbhajan looks like he is not even interested in bowling. All depends on Ishant spell after tea

 

[vcs]

This is a flawed method I believe because it just shows you the average for the innings when the batsman got dismissed by Zaheer. It ignores what a batsman did in other innings when he didn't get dismissed by Zaheer.. Eg.. batsmanX gets out to duck seven times in a row to Zaheer and smashes him in the next three innings and didn't get out to Zaheer.. it won't improve his average in innings when he got dismissed by Zaheer. His average for innings when he got out to Zaheer remains 0.

Tbh, this is a useless stats

see for example
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Good point.

 

[Uppercut]

Well, in Barath's case he was undone by very good bowling, Simmons is probably just not upto it, and Sarwan is in horrific form. Don't think it was necessarily a tactical thing.

Whether they would have been good enough otherwise is another issue entirely.

Simmons and Sarwan both got out playing extremely attacking strokes against India's best bowlers when new to the crease. The tactics were poor.

 

[centurymaker]

An avg of 30 against a Top bowler is probably par.


This tests seems to be heading for a draw.....