Rahul Dravid - What would you do? Is he still one of India's 6 best batsman?

[centurymaker]

So? How does that conclusively prove that it was the umpire's fault????

Miandad also didn't get an LBW in the 1986-87 series against WI at home when Imran was sick of such complaints and decided to bring in neutral umpires. Incidentally both neutral umpires were from India. So something was wrong with the umpiring again????

And Miandad scored double hundreds against NZ, and Eng abroad. Also was a key member of Pak sides winning in India and England and tying with the WI. So yes your statement does sound ridiculous . Also one of only two players whose career average never dipped below 50.

On pitches that are on the lower side he gets given LBW 0 times, while on pitches that have more bounce he gets out LBW 17 times. So doggy.

He didn't do particularly well in that series btw.

I am rating him alongside Jayawardene, maybe slightly ahead of jayawardene so there's nothing ridiculous about that.

 

[abmk]

Miandad > Jayawardane and by some margin ! Its not even close

 

[smash84]

On pitches that are on the lower side he gets given LBW 0 times, while on pitches that have more bounce he gets out LBW 17 times. So doggy.

He didn't do particularly well in that series btw.

I am rating him alongside Jayawardene, maybe slightly ahead of jayawardene so there's nothing ridiculous about that.

yeah that is because his overall record against the WI was not too good before the 1988 series in WI. According to himself he worked really hard on that series and after that series Imran was forced to accept him as a great batsman. Before that series Imran always doubted him. Besides there were very few batsmen who did well against the WI in their era of dominance.

Your hints that he was only scoring runs at home because he was never given LBW is ridiculous and I pointed out that series because it had neutral umpires.

 

[vcs]

I would rate Miandad above Jayawardene and Sangakkara right now but it is not too farfetched that they might overtake him by the time their career ends IMO. They have seriously impressive records. Mahela has over 9500 Test runs with 28 centuries! That's an awesome record.

 

[smash84]

I would rate Miandad above Jayawardene and Sangakkara right now but it is not too farfetched that they might overtake him by the time their career ends IMO. They have seriously impressive records. Mahela has over 9500 Test runs with 28 centuries! That's an awesome record.

I am looking forward to the SL tour of England to see how Sanga and Jayawardena perform in testing conditions.

Jayawardena I rate well too but below De Silva and Miandad. Sangers is going great guns and probably will over take Miandad by the end of his career IMO.

 

[Howe_zat]

If Miandad and Jayawardena are similar, it's because Mahela is quality and not because of any sort of failing on Miandad's part. The idea he had special status from umpires is a fallacy - as Smiley points out, neutral umpires came in during, not after his career, and before then home umpires were just something every touring team had to deal with.

Then there's that Jayawardena has a record that could be considered a product of his time, whereas Miandad's is truly exceptional for the era he played in, with only really having Border for much company.

 

[vcs]

IMO, De Silva was a genius batsmen who could do amazing things against pace bowling, but he also had long periods of low-scoring and inconsistency during his career. I can't see how we can overlook a 10-point swing in average.

 

[smash84]

IMO, De Silva was a genius batsmen who could do amazing things against pace bowling, but he also had long periods of low-scoring and inconsistency during his career. I can't see how we can overlook a 10-point swing in average.

The latter half of De Silva's career where he had a half decent team to back him is just outstanding. He is one of the most under rated players of the game IMO. He could take apart the 2Ws at their peak when he was on song and I saw him do that a number of times.

On his day he was as good as any.

 

[vcs]

Well, we could do that for a lot of batsmen then (taking parts of their career where they did very well). Laxman's average goes above 50 if you remove the early parts where he was asked to open. In any case, it's above 46.

Sanga becomes 2nd best after Bradman if you look at his stats without the keeping gloves. But that would be an unfair conclusion to make.

 

[smash84]

Well, we could do that for a lot of batsmen then (taking parts of their career where they did very well). Laxman's average goes above 50 if you remove the early parts where he was asked to open. In any case, it's above 46.

yes but SL was absolute **** in before 95/96 and I think some leeway could be given to De Silva for playing in that team

 

[hang on]

miandad was a brilliant batsman, and having him in the top 3 asian batsman of all time does no disservice to asian batsmen in general, or tendulkar and gavaskar in particular. however, his record against the windies - an average of 29 and an away record against australia with an average in the late 30s - can be considered to be less than impressive.

in the same way that botham's record/eminence is questioned by many who point to his ordinary record against the preeminent team of his era, i don't think it is unfair to question miandad's relative failures against the strongest team of his time, his two hundreds in the windies in 89 notwithstanding.

have no real views on the lbw issue though it is interesting - as a statistical tidbit - that he wasn't given out lbw even once in pakistan during the first half of his career. any idea of the corresponding figures for gavaskar? there was an article by a couple of guest columnists in cricinfo that analysed lbw trends by country and pre and post the introduction of neutral umps. and, yes, the 86/87 series in pakistan did have neutral umps from india, though only in the last 2 tests....just looked it up!

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Blaze 18]

Miandad > Jayawardane and by some margin ! Its not even close

This.

 

[Blaze 18]

I am looking forward to the SL tour of England to see how Sanga and Jayawardena perform in testing conditions.

Jayawardena I rate well too but below De Silva and Miandad. Sangers is going great guns and probably will over take Miandad by the end of his career IMO.

Disagree with the part in bold. Agree with the rest.

 

[abmk]

He was hardly the only beneficiary. As far as I am concerned, him, Tendulkar and Gavaskar are the only three all-time great batsmen from Asia.

I'd rate Dravid above Miandad tbh

 

[Blaze 18]

I'd rate Dravid above Miandad tbh

Dravid's awesome but I wouldn't have him above Miandad, or as an all-time great batsman.

 

[abmk]

Dravid's awesome but I wouldn't have him above Miandad, or as an all-time great batsman.

and that would be because ?

Miandad did badly vs WI ( except for one tour ) and didn't do that well against Lillee and co ...

Dravid was/is by some distance better outside the SC ... Miandad better in the respective home conditions, but again somewhat inflated by home umpires factor in Pak

 

[Blaze 18]

and that would be because ?

Miandad did badly vs WI ( except for one tour ) and didn't do that well against Lillee and co ...

Dravid was/is by some distance better outside the SC ... Miandad better in the respective home conditions, but again somewhat inflated by home umpires factor in Pak

Personal opinion (or bias if you want). I don't really have a fixed set of criteria.

 

[smash84]

as I said earlier and howe zat pointed out that all teams were benefitting from home umpiring and not just Pakistan

 

[abmk]

as I said earlier and howe zat pointed out that all teams were benefitting from home umpiring and not just Pakistan

yeah, but it was probably at its worst in Pak , from what I know

 

[Blaze 18]

Pakistan may have been the worst but New Zealand, India, etc. weren't far behind.