Rahul Dravid - What would you do? Is he still one of India's 6 best batsman?

[centurymaker]

miandad was a brilliant batsman, and having him in the top 3 asian batsman of all time does no disservice to asian batsmen in general, or tendulkar and gavaskar in particular. however, his record against the windies - an average of 29 and an away record against australia with an average in the late 30s - can be considered to be less than impressive.

in the same way that botham's record/eminence is questioned by many who point to his ordinary record against the preeminent team of his era, i don't think it is unfair to question miandad's relative failures against the strongest team of his time, his two hundreds in the windies in 89 notwithstanding.

have no real views on the lbw issue though it is interesting - as a statistical tidbit - that he wasn't given out lbw even once in pakistan during the first half of his career. any idea of the corresponding figures for gavaskar? there was an article by a couple of guest columnists in cricinfo that analysed lbw trends by country and pre and post the introduction of neutral umps. and, yes, the 86/87 series in pakistan did have neutral umps from india, though only in the last 2 tests....just looked it up!

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Just had a look. Gavaskar got out LBW just 17 times in his entire career, which means he was a great leg-side player.
10 times he was given LBW at home and 7 times away.

 

[vcs]

Or it could just be a statistical anomaly. Is there some cumulative stats on the number of times Pakistani batsmen were given LBW at home before and after neutral umpires, so that we can compare?

 

[hang on]

thanks, centurymaker.

btw, any idea about an analysis in cricinfo that charted lbws by country and over time? distinctly remember reading it a year or two ago but cannot, for the life of me, find it.

 

[Cevno]

Pakistan may have been the worst but New Zealand, India, etc. weren't far behind.

Everybody was at it,TBH.

Even Australia and England.

Many players from the subcontinent protested in the ground, threatened to quit tours and were upset about umpiring on these tours.

Pakistan i think is given negative press too much, due to the Shakoor rana incident but everyone was equally guilty.
England and Australia basically controlled the media and the cricketing world ,so were able to cover up such errors in their home series and highlight it more in away series.

 

[Howe_zat]

Everybody was at it,TBH.

Even Australia and England.

Many players from the subcontinent protested in the ground, threatened to quit tours and were upset about umpiring on these tours.

Pakistan i think is given negative press too much, due to the Shakoor rana incident but everyone was equally guilty.
England and Australia basically controlled the media and the cricketing world ,so were able to cover up such errors in their home series and highlight it more in away series.

Think that's an overstatement in bold.

But I agree with your general point. I'd also say that these generally things got better over time as coverage increased, and by Miandad's time umpiring bias wasn't as pronounced as in the time when England-Australia was the sole pinnacle.

Take Bradman being let off in the first innings of the 1946-7 tour, for example. I'm sure an incident like that wouldn't occour if umpires thought everyone around the world was watching.

(Not complaining or discrediting ftr, I'm sure umpires in England returned the favour.)

 

[honestbharani]

Aussie umpires were shocking even in the mid to late 90s...

 

[smash84]

I'd rate Dravid above Miandad tbh

The arguments that you do put forward regarding Miandad not doing well against Lillee and Co can be applied to Dravid as well when he had to fact the 2Ws and Shoaib and his record in SA is also nothing to write home about. Just like Miandad's in WI

And this list originally posted by Howezat does speak a lot about how good Miandad was. The quality of attacks during that period was pretty good too better than the noughties

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

[abmk]

The arguments that you do put forward regarding Miandad not doing well against Lillee and Co can be applied to Dravid as well when he had to fact the 2Ws and Shoaib and his record in SA is also nothing to write home about.

Absolutely, but Dravid has the advantage of being so good outside of the SC ..

He didn't do badly vs Shoaib , did struggle a bit against Mcgrath/Warne though

 

[Blaze 18]

To be fair to Dravid, a lot of people struggled against Glenn McGrath.

 

[smash84]

Absolutely, but Dravid has the advantage of being so good outside of the SC ..

He didn't do badly vs Shoaib , did struggle a bit against Mcgrath/Warne though

Exactly. Also in the 1999 series against Pak when Pak had a really good attack Dravid struggled. Averaged not more than 27 IIRC.

 

[smash84]

To be fair to Dravid, a lot of people struggled against Glenn McGrath.

I accept that but tbf to Miandad a LOT of people struggled against Marshall and Co.

 

[Blaze 18]

I accept that but tbf to Miandad a LOT of people struggled against Marshall and Co.

Never denied that. I rate Miandad above Dravid by a reasonable distance.

 

[centurymaker]

Never denied that. I rate Miandad above Dravid by a reasonable distance.

Ever saw Miandad bat?
He would often cover up his stumps.
btw 10 LBWs home- 6 away for Chappell. (150 innings in total)
However he played more games at home so it's pretty even home and away.

 

[smash84]

Ever saw Miandad bat?
He would often cover up his stumps.
btw 10 LBWs home- 6 away for Chappell. (150 innings in total)
However he played more games at home so it's pretty even home and away.

Ever seen Dhoni bat? He often walks across his stumps.......

 

[abmk]

Exactly. Also in the 1999 series against Pak when Pak had a really good attack Dravid struggled. Averaged not more than 27 IIRC.

yeah, both had their share of flaws against the best bowlers. What tips the scale in favour of Dravid IMO is his batting away outside of the SC ..... I see no reason to place Dravid and Miandad in different "leagues" like Blaze does . Do you ?

 

[smash84]

yeah, both had their share of flaws against the best bowlers. What tips the scale in favour of Dravid IMO is his batting away outside of the SC ..... I see no reason to place Dravid and Miandad in different "leagues" like Blaze does . Do you ?

might not place them in different leagues but Miandad had the Laxmanish quality of batting beautifully with the tail. Perhaps bettered only by Allan Border as bagapath put it and seemed to thrive in pressure situations. Also the fact that Miandad had much less support from other ends tips the scales in his favor IMO.

 

[Blaze 18]

Ever saw Miandad bat?
He would often cover up his stumps.
btw 10 LBWs home- 6 away for Chappell. (150 innings in total)
However he played more games at home so it's pretty even home and away.

I'm only nineteen so I couldn't really watch him whilst he was playing. I have seen most of his innings versus India on tape though (my dad used to record India-Pakistan matches); also watched a couple of his hundreds against New Zealand somewhere, and I've read a lot about him.

 

[marc71178]

The latter half of De Silva's career where he had a half decent team to back him is just outstanding. He is one of the most under rated players of the game IMO. He could take apart the 2Ws at their peak when he was on song and I saw him do that a number of times.

On his day he was as good as any.

I'd love to know how big this number of times is seeing as he only played them 9 times and averaged 29.53 in those games.

Yes, he did score 2 tons in those games (but seeing as he didn't face Wasim during one of the tons I'd suggest that he would've had trouble taking him apart.)

 

[smash84]

I'd love to know how big this number of times is seeing as he only played them 9 times and averaged 29.53 in those games.

Yes, he did score 2 tons in those games (but seeing as he didn't face Wasim during one of the tons I'd suggest that he would've had trouble taking him apart.)

This inning

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63652.html

It was an awesome display

 

[honestbharani]

This inning

1st Test: Sri Lanka v Pakistan at Colombo (PSS), Aug 9-13, 1994 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

It was an awesome display

so basically number of times = 1



But yeah, big fan of De Silva myself... Was awesome to watch him take it to Brett Lee in the 2003 WC..