Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes

[Flem274*]

I'm relieved to hear I can, after being decieved in flight, still play my shot despite it being the wrong shot because the ball will not land where I think it will.

 

[social]

Whomever Oz pick as their next test spinner, they'll be pushing **** uphill unless our seam bowlers can do their job and remove some of the opposition top order for reasonable scores

After all, even Warne, Murali, etc would've struggled if they were faced with an opposition on 0-95 after 18 overs every single time they came onto bowl

 

[Flem274*]

TumTum, can I please bowl to you?

 

[Spark]

Whomever Oz pick as their next test spinner, they'll be pushing **** uphill unless our seam bowlers can do their job and remove some of the opposition top order for reasonable scores

After all, even Warne, Murali, etc would've struggled if they were faced with an opposition on 0-95 after 18 overs every single time they came onto bowl

Murali did quite OK for a lot of his career with that tbh.

 

[TumTum]

I'm relieved to hear I can, after being decieved in flight, still play my shot despite it being the wrong shot because the ball will not land where I think it will.

Initially you'll get the landing spot wrong, but you can adjust with the curve of the ball mid flight. If you can't, you're not a good batsman basically.

TumTum, can I please bowl to you?

lol ok.

 

[social]

Murali did quite OK for a lot of his career with that tbh.

Even Murali had Vaas taking 300 wickets at the other end AND bowling accurately at the same time

Plus he had the advantage of bowling on wickets perfectly suited to him

An Aussie spinner will have none of those advantages atm

 

[Furball]

lolyes.

Vettori has taken 657 wickets in his international career. That's a hell of a lot of poor batsmen he's dismissing seeing as he relies mostly on beating players in flight.

 

[Spark]

Even Murali had Vaas taking 300 wickets at the other end AND bowling accurately at the same time

Plus he had the advantage of bowling on wickets perfectly suited to him

An Aussie spinner will have none of those advantages atm

And was a once-in-a-lifetime freak bowler, yeah. Fair enough.

Vettori has taken 657 wickets in his international career. That's a hell of a lot of poor batsmen he's dismissing seeing as he relies mostly on beating players in flight.

I don't even want to know about what he thinks about Ponting...

 

[benchmark00]

TumTum - serious question. How much cricket have you played?

I find in order to actually grasp the fundamental difficulties of facing spin bowling you actually have to have played a bit of cricket.

 

[TumTum]

TumTum - serious question. How much cricket have you played?

I find in order to actually grasp the fundamental difficulties of facing spin bowling you actually have to have played a bit of cricket.

Only played a season of senior cricket and got hit in the shin once and decided it ain't worth it. I found spin bowling the easiest to play, wasn't too fond of the short stuff (or sometimes beamers) dished out by the quicks.

Anyways this isn't about how an amateur can play spin bowling but a professional. For their skill level, the gentle curving deliveries dished out by Hauritz is relatively easy to play compared to spinners who actually spin the ball.

 

[benchmark00]

Only played a season of senior cricket and got hit in the shin once and decided it ain't worth it. I found spin bowling the easiest to play, wasn't too fond of the short stuff (or sometimes beamers) dished out by the quicks.

Anyways this isn't about how an amateur can play spin bowling but a professional. For their skill level, the gentle curving deliveries dished out by Hauritz is relatively easy to play compared to spinners who actually spin the ball.

In spin bowling, you only ever need to turn the ball half a bat width. And even then, you don't have to do it all the time. The beauty of spin bowling is that it's not the spin alone that gets wickets. It's the planning leading up to the ball, coupled with drift, flight, changes of pace and accuracy.

Having all of those tools are ideal and you'll find that all the spin bowlers who possess those skills and can harness them appropriately are all time great spin bowlers.

You can still be a good spin bowler without having every single one of those components.

 

[TumTum]

In spin bowling, you only ever need to turn the ball half a bat width. And even then, you don't have to do it all the time. The beauty of spin bowling is that it's not the spin alone that gets wickets. It's the planning leading up to the ball, coupled with drift, flight, changes of pace and accuracy.

Having all of those tools are ideal and you'll find that all the spin bowlers who possess those skills and can harness them appropriately are all time great spin bowlers.

You can still be a good spin bowler without having every single one of those components.

Fair enough, then in your opinion why does Hauritz find it so difficult to trouble quality batsman despite the good flight and drift he has?

I just find it really frustrating watching him bowl. Especially because he hardy ever gets right handers out caught at short-leg from a bat pad, or be able to build pressure around the bat. Batsman seem to have all the time in the world playing him.

 

[Burgey]

Fair enough, then in your opinion why does Hauritz find it so difficult to trouble quality batsman despite the good flight and drift he has?

I just find it really frustrating watching him bowl. Especially because he hardy ever gets right handers out caught at short-leg from a bat pad, or be able to build pressure around the bat. Batsman seem to have all the time in the world playing him.

He does trouble batsmen at times though mate. He's an honest bowler but not a great one, sadly for him and for us. I tend to think spinners are really under the pump these days, even at test level, with the aggressiveness of batting these days, unless conditions are really helpful or they're a cut above.

 

[benchmark00]

Fair enough, then in your opinion why does Hauritz find it so difficult to trouble quality batsman despite the good flight and drift he has?

I just find it really frustrating watching him bowl. Especially because he hardy ever gets right handers out caught at short-leg from a bat pad, or be able to build pressure around the bat. Batsman seem to have all the time in the world playing him.

Hauritz struggles to get quality batsmen out, as you put it, because he's not a particularly awesome longer form bowler, merely a solid one.

He's quite good in the shorter forms because it suits him more as his zones aren't extremely adventurous and he does have good control.

Hauritz at the moment is the best realistic option we have. Personally I'd be willing to look at Krejza again, as I said during the Ashes, mainly because our attack now is more suited to his bowling than what it was when he started out.

 

[Spark]

He got a bit messed up after his Test successes last year in ODIs for mine. For a few games he stuck to his Test match lines which were waaaay too attacking for LO spin bowling.

 

[Uppercut]

I don't really get how turn and drift have winded up on either side of the argument, they're proportional. Turn, drift and bounce are all a function of revs. The most effective test spinners don't always get big turn, but there aren't many examples of a top-class test spinners who don't get a lot of revs.

FWIW I don't think there's a spinner in Australia that gets more revs than Hauritz- certainly not one with anything close to reasonable control- Beer and Doherty certainly don't.

 

[howardj]

Hauritz struggles to get quality batsmen out, as you put it, because he's not a particularly awesome longer form bowler, merely a solid one.

He's quite good in the shorter forms because it suits him more as his zones aren't extremely adventurous and he does have good control.

Hauritz at the moment is the best realistic option we have. Personally I'd be willing to look at Krejza again, as I said during the Ashes, mainly because our attack now is more suited to his bowling than what it was when he started out.

He also, we're informed, has a good ODI record in India.

 

[Flem274*]

If you suck at flighting the ball then the batsman will know where your ripping leg break will land every time and won't be sucked into playing anything he shouldn't.

 

[TumTum]

If you suck at flighting the ball then the batsman will know where your ripping leg break will land every time and won't be sucked into playing anything he shouldn't.

Very true, except the stump to stump deliveries which spin.

 

[Furball]

Very true, except the stump to stump deliveries which spin.

If you're not flighting the ball, then the batsman can just come down the track and smother the spin/belt you out the ground. Regardless of how much turn you're getting.