Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes

[Spark]

If you can beat a batsman in flight, then you have him playing down the wrong line and/or length. That is what gets you wickets, not turning it a bit more than usual.

 

[Top_Cat]

Warne, post shoulder-op, took many more wickets with variations on balls that (apparently) did absolutely nothing. Big revs will only get you so far, Graeme Swann spent the best part of his 20's learning that.

 

[Spark]

Krezja still give it a good a rip as he used to? Another case of a bloke who despite getting good turn, doesn't mean you'll get wickets - at a reasonably price, anyway.

 

[Top_Cat]

Even then, it took a ridiculously spinning Indian deck to help him out. Outside of that, he's barely taken any wickets. And is still getting pummelled.

When you're getting kept out of your state team by DontHurtMe......

 

[robelinda]

He needs to change states. QLD or WA or even SA would pick him for the 4 day stuff.

 

[stephen]

Also reading spin off the pitch is only possible if you play it from the back foot. However even if you read the spin, it doesn't mean you are going to adjust for it in time (which is basically how KP dismissed Clarke, Clarkey picked it up but wasn't able to execute because he had to cover such a distance)..

When playing spin, you play on the front foot to negate the spin. You play on the back foot to watch the spin and play a shot having adjusted for the spin.

Good drift and flight helps both, but mostly with front foot play. On the front foot the batsman may have covered the spin well enough but the drift and flight causes them to play down the wrong line (meaning inside or outside edge) or the wrong length (meaning it hits too high on the bat) or both. This gets catches, mostly in front of wicket. Most of these catches look like the batsman has gifted their wicket and are usually seen as "soft".

On the backfoot, drift causes the batsman to be out of position and have to readjust their shot. Generally though if the batsman is on the back foot to a spinner it is because the spinner has dropped it short, which is generally considered a bad ball. The only exception to that is when there is huge amounts of turn and the batsman has gone back to give themselves more time to adjust. Drift means that they will have to adjust to two things in this situation.

Warne himself has said on numerous occasions that you beat the batsman in the air.

Everyone who is anyone as a spinner knows that you take wickets in the air and not off the pitch. The pitch really helps because it means that when you beat the batsman you are more likely to get the wicket due to the extra spin, but the point is that good shape is a prerequisite for good spin bowling. Hauritz is the spinner who does the most with the ball in the air in this country at the moment. That makes him the best spinner.

Great ball that, because as you said it did both.

Now visualize if the ball didn't turn and just straightened. Gatting although being in a bad position adjusted quite well and he had covered for the small amount of spin that could have been there, and if the ball just skidded it would have hit his pad way outside leg stump.

As I keep saying you need both:

You do need both, but you don't need huge amounts of spin to make it work. Harbhajan has made a career of accurate bowling that doesn't turn huge amounts.

 

[Spark]

More to the point, Hauritz when bowling well does enough in the air to be a reasonable Test spinner.

 

[Flem274*]

Tumtum thinks like a novice legspinner. "More turn, more turn!"

 

[BoyBrumby]

Even if, for the sake of argument, we accept TumTum's ideas about slow bowling, the fact is that neither D'oherty nor Beer exactly rag it square anyway. All things being equal I'd say Doogie is a bigger turner than either.

 

[TumTum]

lolno.

lolyes.

If you can beat a batsman in flight, then you have him playing down the wrong line and/or length. That is what gets you wickets, not turning it a bit more than usual.

Not true. You can still adjust your bat position and follow the curve. If you do miss the ball completely by flight alone than frankly you shouldn't be playing cricket. The problem is with your body position (such as a gap between bat pad etc) which can lead to your dismissal if the ball does something off the pitch.

When playing spin, you play on the front foot to negate the spin. You play on the back foot to watch the spin and play a shot having adjusted for the spin.

Good drift and flight helps both, but mostly with front foot play. On the front foot the batsman may have covered the spin well enough but the drift and flight causes them to play down the wrong line (meaning inside or outside edge) or the wrong length (meaning it hits too high on the bat) or both. This gets catches, mostly in front of wicket. Most of these catches look like the batsman has gifted their wicket and are usually seen as "soft".

On the backfoot, drift causes the batsman to be out of position and have to readjust their shot. Generally though if the batsman is on the back foot to a spinner it is because the spinner has dropped it short, which is generally considered a bad ball. The only exception to that is when there is huge amounts of turn and the batsman has gone back to give themselves more time to adjust. Drift means that they will have to adjust to two things in this situation.

Warne himself has said on numerous occasions that you beat the batsman in the air.

Everyone who is anyone as a spinner knows that you take wickets in the air and not off the pitch. The pitch really helps because it means that when you beat the batsman you are more likely to get the wicket due to the extra spin, but the point is that good shape is a prerequisite for good spin bowling. Hauritz is the spinner who does the most with the ball in the air in this country at the moment. That makes him the best spinner.



You do need both, but you don't need huge amounts of spin to make it work. Harbhajan has made a career of accurate bowling that doesn't turn huge amounts.

This is where you're contradicting yourself, you are saying that you get your wickets from the flight, but that extra spin makes it more likely for you getting a wicket.

It really doesn't matter how much you get beaten in the flight, if the ball just goes straight after pitching as a batsman you have nothing to worry about irrespective of the way you are playing it.

They say a picture tells a 1000 words, so here I give you an example:


BTW Harbhajan does spin it big when the pitch suits him, but when he doesn't get much from the pitch this is where he goes for runs, despite having great flight and dip on the ball. This is all reflected on his inconsistent career.

 

[TumTum]

Even if, for the sake of argument, we accept TumTum's ideas about slow bowling, the fact is that neither D'oherty nor Beer exactly rag it square anyway. All things being equal I'd say Doogie is a bigger turner than either.

True. No way Doherty can spin it, but I still have hope in Beer, giving him a chance in SL is a good idea.

 

[Spark]

No IMO. He has potential, based on some nice shape on the ball but he is appreciably inferior to Hauritz, and only three years younger. Get him some FC experience before we get him back in the test side.

 

[Spikey]

They say a picture tells a 1000 words, so here I give you an example:
View attachment 19418

Amazing.

 

[TumTum]

No IMO. He has potential, based on some nice shape on the ball but he is appreciably inferior to Hauritz, and only three years younger. Get him some FC experience before we get him back in the test side.

Sounds a good idea, as long as it doesn't mean we bring Hauritz back.

 

[Spark]

It really doesn't matter how much you get beaten in the flight, if the ball just goes straight after pitching as a batsman you have nothing to worry about irrespective of the way you are playing it.

/facepalm

 

[robelinda]

/facepalm

1000 of them

 

[benchmark00]

/facepalm

Hahaha, that has to be the worst post on cricket ever. Surely.

 

[TumTum]

Just shows the real reason behind Australia's downfall in the past few years, it isn't the fault of the selectors/coaches/captains but small minded fans such as yourselves with your knee-jerk reactions about dropped/dropping players. Before Hauritz was sacked, it was all about Krezja and for his return.

Anyways if none of you are prepared to have a real debate, I think I'm done here.

 

[Spikey]

Hahaha, that has to be the worst post on cricket ever. Surely.

 

[howardj]

Just shows the real reason behind Australia's downfall in the past few years, it isn't the fault of the selectors/coaches/captains but small minded fans such as yourselves with your knee-jerk reactions about dropped/dropping players. Before Hauritz was sacked, it was all about Krezja and for his return.

.

Yep letters to the editor and posts on internet forums from fans, that's the reason for the downfall.

Coaches, selectors, players, sheduling, CA, captains? No ****ing way.