Andre
International Regular
Evidently.
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Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes
- Thread starter stephen
- Start date
TumTum
Banned
So I assume this is the end of the discussion?
Andre
International Regular
Haha, might have to agree to disagreeSo I assume this is the end of the discussion?
TumTum
Banned
On what, the discussion's status or the discussion itself?Haha, might have to agree to disagree
So you believe Drift and Flight are enough to get quality batsman out, whereas I don't.
I rank the importance of the 2 aspects like this: Both drift & spin - Spin by itself - Drift by itself (from most to least effective). So you can see why I don't rate Hauritz or Vettori. Smith has neither ftr and he's not accurate either which is why he's a pie chucker
TumTum
Banned
Smith wishes. That's probably the only thing in his favor atm, although Kumble had the accuracy.
Spark
Global Moderator
wtf? i'm not going to even argue with you on smith, but i was citing kumble as a bowler who didn't turn it that much but was supremely effective through flight. harbhajan in 01 - blew us off the park through insane drop.
good spin bowlers beat batsmen in the air first and foremost.
good spin bowlers beat batsmen in the air first and foremost.
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TumTum
Banned
You can't compare finger spinners to wrist spinners that easily. Overspin/Drop is a new skill altogether, which he's still the best at in the world.
TumTum
Banned
Good spin bowlers can also spin it. Obviously you beat them firstly by the flight, but it doesn't help your cause if the ball just goes where the batsman expect it to go.
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Furball
Evil Scotsman
Which doesn't happen if you beat him in flight, regardless of whether it turns.
TumTum
Banned
What do you mean by "beat"? As in the batsman misses the delivery altogether or that he gets himself into a bad position?
As I said, yes the batsman will survive that situation because the ball does nothing off the pitch. The batsman don't expect the ball to spin and it doesn't. Life of Hauritz basically.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Ah ok, you don't have a clue about spin bowling.
TumTum
Banned
How do people expect to have a normal discussion when they just make stupid remarks such as this.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So this is how a batsman plays a spinner.
1) They look at the ball out of the hand and try and pick the type of ball so that they can play for any spin
2) At the same time they try and judge the length and line of the ball
3) They move their feet so that they are in position to hit the ball
4) They watch the ball off the pitch and play for spin
Good spin bowling either has to
a) spin so much that they catch the batsman not playing a shot or playing the wrong line (which is hard to do if they can see the ball off the pitch at point 4); or
b) beat the batsman in the air. Beating the batsman in the air means that at step 2 they misjudge the line and length and at step 3 they move their feet incorrectly meaning that by step 4 they are completely out of position regardless of what the ball does off the pitch.
Spin bowlers who are good at (a) are generally legspinners or finger spinners on a crumbling pitch. They get a lot of caught behinds/lbws and bowleds.
Spin bowlers who are good at (b) are generally fingerspinners and get a high portion of outfield catches and catches in front of square.
Spin bowlers who do both are usually named Shane Warne.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
YouTube - Shane Warne - Ball Of The Century
The reason that this is called the ball of the century is that it beat the batsmen both in flight and off the pitch. Look at the way he adjusted his shot halfway through the delivery, only to have the ball rip right back past the bat. Orgasmic.
The reason that this is called the ball of the century is that it beat the batsmen both in flight and off the pitch. Look at the way he adjusted his shot halfway through the delivery, only to have the ball rip right back past the bat. Orgasmic.
TumTum
Banned
Fixed. Drift = Swing & Spin = Seam.
Mate that's the same as everything I just said, not doubting you there. My point is that if you don't get anything of the pitch, being beaten in the air alone won't lose you your wicket. Hauritz, Vettori will confirm.Also reading spin off the pitch is only possible if you play it from the back foot. However even if you read the spin, it doesn't mean you are going to adjust for it in time (which is basically how KP dismissed Clarke, Clarkey picked it up but wasn't able to execute because he had to cover such a distance)..
Great ball that, because as you said it did both.
Now visualize if the ball didn't turn and just straightened. Gatting although being in a bad position adjusted quite well and he had covered for the small amount of spin that could have been there, and if the ball just skidded it would have hit his pad way outside leg stump.
As I keep saying you need both:
me said:
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howardj
International Coach
Nail - Hit - Head
CA are full of boofheads
- Split innings cricket in a World Cup year
- Demanding Bollinger and Hussey play Champions League instead of preparing for a Test match
- Extending Timmy Nielsen's contract for another three years
- Making the Big Bash become City-based
They're a bunch of ****ing toss-pots, more concerned with marketing (by the way, Doug Bollinger is massively overexposed considering his achievements) than they are with the national team's well-being.
This is what concerns me with any Australian revival - it has to be achieved not just with questionable playing stocks, but despite dicks like Nielsen, Sutherland, CA, Chappell and Hilditch leading the way.
The perfect storm of dickheads
CA are full of boofheads
- Split innings cricket in a World Cup year
- Demanding Bollinger and Hussey play Champions League instead of preparing for a Test match
- Extending Timmy Nielsen's contract for another three years
- Making the Big Bash become City-based
They're a bunch of ****ing toss-pots, more concerned with marketing (by the way, Doug Bollinger is massively overexposed considering his achievements) than they are with the national team's well-being.
This is what concerns me with any Australian revival - it has to be achieved not just with questionable playing stocks, but despite dicks like Nielsen, Sutherland, CA, Chappell and Hilditch leading the way.
The perfect storm of dickheads
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Furball
Evil Scotsman
In fact, the best example of a batsman being totally deceived by flight isn't even off a spin bowler, which backs up the argument that a spinner doesn't have to be doing much off the pitch to take wickets:
YouTube - Chris Read ducks a Chris Cairns slower ball yorker
YouTube - Chris Read ducks a Chris Cairns slower ball yorker
Furball
Evil Scotsman
lolno.Fixed. Drift = Swing & Spin = Seam.
Also reading spin off the pitch is only possible if you play it from the back foot. However even if you read the spin, it doesn't mean you are going to adjust for it in time (which is basically how KP dismissed Clarke, Clarkey picked it up but wasn't able to execute because he had to cover such a distance)..
Great ball that, because as you said it did both.
Now visualize if the ball didn't turn and just straightened. Gatting although being in a bad position adjusted quite well and he had covered for the small amount of spin that could have been there, and if the ball just skidded it would have hit his pad way outside leg stump.
As I keep saying you need both: