England can beat India "every day of week": Gough

[Jarquis]

Okay, let us start nit-picking. In this "sustained period" you speak of, Broad averages sixty-seven against India (over a grand total of one match). What do I make of it ? Anyway, since you asked me to pick a period I wanted, I chose three years; and guess what - Ishant's and Broad's averages are very similar.

As far as I am concerned - Zaheer > Anderson (only just), Broad and Finn/Tremlett >> Ishant/Sreesanth and Graeme Swann < Harbhajan Singh - I don't necessarily rate Harbhajan Singh higher, but I expect the Indian batsmen to annihilate Swann. Not sure about the English batsmen doing the same to Singh.



Whatever the case, the batting line-ups are at least comparable, which means that if the Indian bowlers can limit the South African line-up to modest totals on lively tracks, then there is a very good chance that they would do the same against England.

Look, you're entitled to whatever opinions you like and I'm entitled to call them bull****.
One match proves nothing, and although 3 years is a nice period from a statistical point of view for the point you're trying to make, there's no way on this Earth that Broad in 2008 is the same Broad now. As I said, his coming of age series was the WI Away in 2009 and since this period he's improved his performances, for doing so he deserves some credit and attention should be drawn to it. If you can say that Ishant now is a massively improved bowler from his debut.. then go about showing so.

Zaheer and Anderson is so close is basically negligible. I agree with our seamers being better than yours and I think the Swann vs Indian batsmen battle is overstated. You didn't exactly tear him apart on his debut series when he was a much inferior bowler to the one he is nowadays. I don't see how it's at all logical to assume he'd do worse now than he did then. I'd say the opposite for Harbhajan, our batting now is better than it was then and Bhaji certainly hasn't improved in that time period.

And yeah, whatever the case Australia's bowlers are probably better than yours. So if flat tracks turn up look forward to 517/1 and the likes of it.

 

[dhillon28]

He's played South Africa, India and Australia all away from home now. They're like the toughest series in world cricket right now.

i'd argue that sri lanka away is tougher than Aus away especially for a spinner as after indians sri lankans are second best players of spin. also bowling in odis doesnt compare to test, so please dont use swanns good odi game in sri lanka as an example.

windies nearly beat aus in 2nd test last year and only just lost in perth and that was without two of their best fast bowlers. pak also could have done well in aus as scg match showed, but they were too busy taking back handers. hence england should not be getting to carried away with beating this current aus in aus!

 

[Blaze 18]

No, the fact that England were 1 wicket from losing 3-1 was ridiculously incorrect.

Well, I was going to add 'twice' in brackets, but I decided not to thinking that it was fairly obvious. Obviously, I should have know better - I am basically addressing posters who are more interested in insignificant and petty point scoring than having a meaningful discussion.

 

[Furball]

Good lord, where the **** did I bitch about incorrect umpiring ?

You tell me.

You were just being stupid, actually. I would love to know what I was wrong about - the fact that India got two incorrect decisions as opposed to one ?

Eh ? Going on and on about one decision that went in India's favour and ignoring the two that went against India is not your idea of a straw man argument ?

And they shouldn't have had India nine down in the first place. Hey, India were "illegitimately" denied a series win in Australia back in 2007-2008.

Gambhir was also wrongly given out lbw...

And there were two incorrect decisions that went Australia's way in that innings - Gambhir, Sharma.

 

[Bun]

Ok here's what I think.

England certainly have improved but their results against Australia flatter them.

In India, they still don't really stand a chance to defeat India assuming both teams are playing full strength.

In England, it boils down to how well the Indian batting deals with English bowling. Anderson being the key. But half of the Indian toporder batsmen are legends of their time so I think it will take some extra ordinary display of bowling from England to inflict a series defeat.

India probably will continue to hold fort till their best bats retire as unfortunately their reserve batsmen have not really been upto scratch. But as it stands now, that situation looks far enough to make a informed guess.

 

[Jarquis]

i'd argue that sri lanka away is tougher than Aus away especially for a spinner as after indians sri lankans are second best players of spin. also bowling in odis doesnt compare to test, so please dont use swanns good odi game in sri lanka as an example.

No, it doesn't compare but it's arguably the best indicator that we have of how Swann might perform in Tests.
Against Sri Lankan batsmen, in Sri Lankan conditions. If they'd torn him apart their and then on those pitches I'd have reservations but he's shown he can on those pitches to those batsmen, albeit in a different format.

Besides, he was one missing gap out of the 4 toughest series in World Cricket. boourns.

 

[Furball]

you talk about udrs as if it is has proved unequivocally that it has resolved all problems with umpiring. in fact udrs has created new problems that didnt previously exist. namely the use of the predictive element hawk eye that frequently judges not out batsmen as out and out batsmen as not out. udrs doesnt do anything to help disputed catches also. indians are hesitant to accept it as it is simply not reliable enough to moderate matches.

Complete and utter bull****.

 

[Blaze 18]

You tell me.

Hahaha, and I brought that up on my own, didn't I ? Talk about clutching straws dude For the record, BCCI are well within their rights to refuse to use the UDRS - it hasn't been made mandatory as yet. And yes, I have every freaking right to **** about what I want, although I wasn't doing anything of that sort here. I was merely responding to another post - but then you would know that if you actually bothered reading instead of spouting rubbish.

 

[Dissector]

He's played South Africa, India and Australia all away from home now. They're like the toughest series in world cricket right now.

His average against those three countries is 36. Swann is a good spinner but he hasn't actually achieved much against top quality sides.

Anyway I am not sure what the argument is about. I am sure everyone agrees that England will be a tough challenge for India. Beyond that there is not much to say. So much depends on form and fitness and the trajectory of a seemingly unstoppable side can change quickly.The 2005 side had a far more impressive record than this one and they fizzled out afterwards.

 

[Jarquis]

Well, I was going to add 'twice' in brackets, but I decided not to thinking that it was fairly obvious. Obviously, I should have know better - I was basically addressing posters who are more interested in insignificant and petty point scoring than having a meaningful discussion.

So you were going to add in the right information but decided to continue making an incorrect point and then moan when it's pointed out.
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if your original post included the right information. Should try it some time.

 

[Furball]

So you were going to add in the right information but decided to continue making an incorrect point and then moan when it's pointed out.
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if your original post included the right information. Should try it some time.

If people didn't post rubbish, this thread would be about 2 pages long though.

 

[Blaze 18]

If people didn't post rubbish, this thread would be about 2 pages long though.

Yeah, basically without your posts this thread wouldn't be more than a page long.

 

[Bun]

Hahaha, and I brought that up on my own, didn't I ? Talk about clutching straws dude For the record, BCCI are well within their rights to refuse to use the UDRS - it hasn't been made mandatory as yet. And yes, I have every freaking right to **** about what I want, although I wasn't doing anything of that sort here. I was merely responding to another post - but then you would know that if you actually bothered reading instead of spouting rubbish.

No point arguing with them. They'll spout inanities like one test is not a great indicator of how good a bowler is but doesn't hesitate to place a bowler who's has played just two good tests as one of the best in the world. They'll conveniently forget that Broad who played two tests average 80 odd.

 

[Furball]

No point arguing with them. They'll spout inanities like one test is not a great indicator of how good a bowler is but doesn't hesitate to place a bowler who's has played just two good tests as one of the best in the world. They'll conveniently forget that Broad who played two tests average 80 odd.

And who exactly is doing this?

 

[dhillon28]

anyway guys i think indian and english supporters are the last sets of fans who should be talking big atm as we could both end up with egg on our faces! If india lose at CT and eng lose at scg, then all our talk wont count for s**t. if india fail to at least draw in rsa then they wont have proved any of their nay sayers wrong and if england fail to win in aus, then it'll hugely dent their confidence as aussies are at their weakest in 25 years!

any ind/eng fans agree!

 

[Blaze 18]

So you were going to add in the right information but decided to continue making an incorrect point and then moan when it's pointed out.
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if your original post included the right information. Should try it some time.

Yeah, I was going to add information that should have been very obvious to every single cricket fan. Sorry - should have known who I was addressing. I will keep that in mind.

I wasn't "moaning" about that; I was "moaning" about how you were whining about one incorrect decision that India benefited from, but conveniently choosing to ignore the two that went against them.

 

[Bun]

His average against those three countries is 36. Swann is a good spinner but he hasn't actually achieved much against top quality sides.

Anyway I am not sure what the argument is about. I am sure everyone agrees that England will be a tough challenge for India. Beyond that there is not much to say. So much depends on form and fitness and the trajectory of a seemingly unstoppable side can change quickly.The 2005 side had a far more impressive record than this one and they fizzled out afterwards.

Agree fully with this post. In 05 and 06 one can without doubt say England was the number 2 team till they spectacularly unfolded in the downunder ashes. It is a shame that team didn't recover from that.

 

[Burgey]

Gough is an idiot. England are largely untried and their batting is weak in difficult conditions.

India 3-1.

 

[GIMH]

His average against those three countries is 36. Swann is a good spinner but he hasn't actually achieved much against top quality sides.

Anyway I am not sure what the argument is about. I am sure everyone agrees that England will be a tough challenge for India. Beyond that there is not much to say. So much depends on form and fitness and the trajectory of a seemingly unstoppable side can change quickly.The 2005 side had a far more impressive record than this one and they fizzled out afterwards.

Did they?

Won in WI
Beat WI & NZ at home
Won in SA
Beat Ban & Aus at home

V

Beat WI & Aus at home
Drew in SA
Won in Ban
Beat Ban & Pak at home
Won/drew in Aus

Fairly similar records but more success away from home from this side. Also the 05 side didn't win a Test series for a year after the Ashes win whereas this side saw the Ashes win as a catapult.

I imagine this side is better statistically as well. It certainly is from a batting POV.

 

[silentstriker]

have to agree with gough really. India are rapidly aging, frankly. Turning into dad's army really, and only have one decent bowler right now. England 3-1.

gough is an idiot. England are largely untried and their batting is weak in difficult conditions.

India 3-1.

awta