Amongst current non sub-continental batsmen,who is the best player of spin?

[vcs]

I think there's a bit of a myth going around that Pietersen dominated Warne, it was a very even battle IMHO. At the Oval in '05, Warne was exhausted having shouldered an inhuman workload throughout that series. But he kept going at Pietersen and took his punishment like a man on that last day. In Adelaide 2006, there was nothing for the bowlers in the first innings, and Warne was forced to bowl negative lines at Pietersen and Collingwood. When the pitch offered him a bit on the final day, he owned the English batsmen. Warne took Pietersen's wicket quite a few times IIRC in those two series, though Lee and Clark probably troubled him more.

 

[Tom 1972]

If Warne is the best spinner I have seen alot of, KP was one of the few, probably almost the only one who was not the slightest bit intimidated by Warne (some of the sub-continent guys aside).

I know I'm adapting the scope, criteria, facts etc to suit my opinion, but that's the nature of these things isn't it.

 

[aussie]

Ever considered the possibility that he's forced to go gung-ho and try to "dominate" spinners because he's not confident enough in his defensive abilities to block out the good ones? I've rarely seen him play a "put his head down and grind it out" knock against a rampant spin attack, whereas many inferior players of spin have done that and saved/won matches for their team.

He isn't forced to do anything. When he is batting well, he naturally is very positive againts quality spin.

All those times when he was facing. Murai, Warne, Kumble, Harbhajan, Kaneria. I remember many occassions when he would smash them for for or 6 in an over. But would have the composure to if is the last few balls in an over to defend according.

Againts those joke spinners like Harris, Hauritz, Benn. If he took 15 off an over againts them, his utter disdain for them would take over, he would try to go for another big shot & would get out stupidly.

The only time ENG in KPs career have been in a situation where the team had to grind out a last day victory/survival with a quality/average spinner bowling on a turner, was this test:

1st Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Dec 16-20, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

For once he played Harris very composed. Would have probably scored a hundred if it wasn't for a crazy runout. So i'm confident if such a situation comes up again, KP can focus againts such spinner & bat.

 

[tooextracool]

I think there's a bit of a myth going around that Pietersen dominated Warne, it was a very even battle IMHO. At the Oval in '05, Warne was exhausted having shouldered an inhuman workload throughout that series. But he kept going at Pietersen and took his punishment like a man on that last day. In Adelaide 2006, there was nothing for the bowlers in the first innings, and Warne was forced to bowl negative lines at Pietersen and Collingwood. When the pitch offered him a bit on the final day, he owned the English batsmen. Warne took Pietersen's wicket quite a few times IIRC in those two series, though Lee and Clark probably troubled him more.

Dont think its a myth really. By the time the 2006/07 series rolled around, Pietersen was toying with him for fun. Warne may have dismissed him twice, but one of which was Pietersen holing out while going for the slog. I dont rate Pietersen that highly against spin, I've seen him struggle against the likes of Vettori, but there is no doubt that everytime Warne came on to bowl to him during the Ashes, there was a noticeable release off pressure. The guy just loved playing him.

 

[aussie]

I think there's a bit of a myth going around that Pietersen dominated Warne, it was a very even battle IMHO. At the Oval in '05, Warne was exhausted having shouldered an inhuman workload throughout that series. But he kept going at Pietersen and took his punishment like a man on that last day. In Adelaide 2006, there was nothing for the bowlers in the first innings, and Warne was forced to bowl negative lines at Pietersen and Collingwood. When the pitch offered him a bit on the final day, he owned the English batsmen. Warne took Pietersen's wicket quite a few times IIRC in those two series, though Lee and Clark probably troubled him more.

He didn't dominate Warne in the way Lara dominated Murali etc. In the sense that Warne didn't seem to know where to bowl to him.

The battle was indeed even. But the times KP one was mroe than many other batsmen in Warne's career outside Warne's tours to IND, vs Salim Malik in PAK 94 & Lara @ times.

 

[Spark]

With KP I'm a bit hesitant to put him above Clarke and Kallis simply because he gets out far too often to silly shots against spin. Poor spin is still spin and whilst aussie is probably correct that against a quality spinner he will probably play well, you can't really fairly call him the best player of spin when he gets out to them in such abhorrent circumstances with such regularity, especially with the lack of very high-quality spinners going around at the present time.

 

[Migara]

If Warne is the best spinner I have seen alot of, KP was one of the few, probably almost the only one who was not the slightest bit intimidated by Warne (some of the sub-continent guys aside).

I know I'm adapting the scope, criteria, facts etc to suit my opinion, but that's the nature of these things isn't it.

Lara?

 

[Migara]

He isn't forced to do anything. When he is batting well, he naturally is very positive againts quality spin.

All those times when he was facing. Murai, Warne, Kumble, Harbhajan, Kaneria. I remember many occassions when he would smash them for for or 6 in an over. But would have the composure to if is the last few balls in an over to defend according.

Againts those joke spinners like Harris, Hauritz, Benn. If he took 15 off an over againts them, his utter disdain for them would take over, he would try to go for another big shot & would get out stupidly.

The only time ENG in KPs career have been in a situation where the team had to grind out a last day victory/survival with a quality/average spinner bowling on a turner, was this test:

1st Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Dec 16-20, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

For once he played Harris very composed. Would have probably scored a hundred if it wasn't for a crazy runout. So i'm confident if such a situation comes up again, KP can focus againts such spinner & bat.

The whole SL tour of ENG was a survival for KP because England was under the cosh every single innings of every match. But succumbed to the pressure exerted by Lankans, and to date that is his worst tour.

 

[robinjr]

Ponting deserves a mention here.hes never been so natural against spin as lara or tend but he worked so hard in this aspect ever since the 01 tour and now is very accomplished against spin(batted realy well in the last series and specialy used the depths of the crease beautifully).

My overall pick is Amla followed by clarke.

 

[aussie]

The whole SL tour of ENG was a survival for KP because England was under the cosh every single innings of every match. But succumbed to the pressure exerted by Lankans, and to date that is his worst tour.

He didn't get out to any stupid shots though (except maybe for the final innings in the 3rd test). Most where very good deliveries, with Murali getting his reverse from the 06 series & of course who can forget the snorter he got from Malinga.

ENG certainly where not under the cosh in every innings of every match. Kindly dont overexaggerate what happened.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

He didn't get out to any stupid shots though (except maybe for the final innings in the 3rd test). Most where very good deliveries

So the failures against ordinary spinners don't count because Kp played stupid shots to get out and that SL tour doesn't count because he didn't play stupid shots and got out to good deliveries.Excellent reasoning right there.

 

[smash84]

Jaques Kallis for sure.

From 1998 onwards (his first meeting with Murali), Kallis aveages 40 with the bat against SL when Murali played (otherwise 37). During the same time Tendulkar averaged around 34 under same conditions. That would give you an idea about Kallis.

I agree. Kallis is very under-rated against spinners when he isn't actually that bad against them.

 

[irottev]

Dunno why Gaylor's in the poll. He's horrid vs spin. That big slog to square leg always gets him out.

 

[TT Boy]

Kane Williamson.

 

[smash84]

Yea Kallis is fairly solid. Nothing dynamic about his play againts spin, but has put together a good record againts quality spin all over.

True. As Migara mentioned his average of 40 against SL when Murali played. Add to that his average of 38 in 18 tests against Warne. Not bad at all.

I think he is quite solid against them since he has good footwork.

 

[Cevno]

If you are goint to include Ex-players, then Lara will top every other mortal when it comes o playing spin.

And yet i remember him somewhat struggling against Anil Kumble overall.

And in one series getting owned by Venkatpathy raju of all people.

 

[Spark]

I agree. Kallis is very under-rated against spinners when he isn't actually that bad against them.

I would point out that just because someone isn't the best doesn't mean they're not good, or very good.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

I would point out that just because someone isn't the best doesn't mean they're not good, or very good.

Exactly...I reckon Kallis isn't rated as highly as say,KP against spin because he isn't as adventurous or attacking.It certainly doesn't mean that he sucks against spin.

 

[Flem274*]

Dunno why Gaylor's in the poll. He's horrid vs spin. That big slog to square leg always gets him out.

Lol, no. If you want to get Taylor out in tests these days, aiming at his pads or enticing him to drive just outside off is the way to go.

Kane Williamson.

Haha, can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

 

[aussie]

So the failures against ordinary spinners don't count because Kp played stupid shots to get out and that SL tour doesn't count because he didn't play stupid shots and got out to good deliveries.Excellent reasoning right there.

Thats your reasoning not mine.