Hayden vs Sehwag (+ other tasty treats)

[vcs]

His mind's pretty much made up on this one, let him get it off his chest.

 

[Matt79]

Guys, don't bait Ben. He's just returned from a ban and obviously it's up to him to avoid the behaviours that prompted that ban, but the posts you've made only make it less likely he'll do so, and are likely to derail a thread for no reason.

 

[GotSpin]

Haha, I met Holyfield at the 2000 Olympics.

I was down at Circular Quay at the live site and my missus was banging on about some crap I was pretending to listen to when I just took off, cos I'd seen The Real Deal.

Was hard to miss. He had a chunk out of his ear, and was wearing a bright orange suit. Terrific fella - happy to have a chat and all. Got a pic with him at homesomewhere.

The kind of garb only a former heavyweight champ or Avon Barksdale could get away with, tbh.

What'd you talk about???

 

[Burgey]

What'd you talk about???

The Tyson fight, how he was enjoying the Games and such.

FMD I remember that fight against Tyson, watched it at a mate's place. They went in the rooms - Tyson was all aggro and telling reporters to **** off away from him. They went to Holyfield's dressing room and he was singing and dancing to gospel music and I just thought "Tyson's goning to have his arse kicked here". Bloke was so centred. A quality fighter he was, especially seeing he was really a beefed-up Cruiserweight.

Gun bloke. Quality fighter.

 

[Himannv]

The Tyson fight, how he was enjoying the Games and such.

FMD I remember that fight against Tyson, watched it at a mate's place. They went in the rooms - Tyson was all aggro and telling reporters to **** off away from him. They went to Holyfield's dressing room and he was singing and dancing to gospel music and I just thought "Tyson's goning to have his arse kicked here". Bloke was so centred. A quality fighter he was, especially seeing he was really a beefed-up Cruiserweight.

Gun bloke. Quality fighter.

Interesting. What did he say about the Tyson fight exactly?

 

[kingkallis]

Big Matty Hayden for me....that guy scared the bowlers!

 

[honestbharani]

It is coming to the point where I think I would take Hayden and Sehwag as my all time opening pair over just about everyone else, including some real legends.. I mean, seriously, what are the chances BOTH will fail, even on a track with something for bowlers? And only one of them need to come off to put the entire bowling lineup on the backfoot...

 

[Zinzan]

It is coming to the point where I think I would take Hayden and Sehwag as my all time opening pair over just about everyone else, including some real legends.. I mean, seriously, what are the chances BOTH will fail, even on a track with something for bowlers? And only one of them need to come off to put the entire bowling lineup on the backfoot...

All-time above above Hobbs & Gavaskar ?

 

[honestbharani]

All-time above above Hobbs & Gavaskar ?

If want runs more than time..



But seriously, I am just finding it hard to believe that BOTH will fail in the same innings enough times to warrant this being a weakness. And the fact that they score so fast means it is a punt worth taking coz they put you so far ahead, esp. if you got a line up of Bradman, Lara, Sachin, Sobers, Gilchrist to follow..


Meh, my side anyways..

 

[Sir Alex]

All-time above above Hobbs & Gavaskar ?

Haha precisely my thoughts too.

 

[Ikki]

I kinda get what HB is saying. Although I'd pick Hobbs and Sutcliffe above all openers I think picking them is just as logical as picking Hutton and Gavaskar TBF. They have different strengths but they are both incredibly good.

 

[G.I.Joe]

All-time above above Hobbs & Gavaskar ?

You have to keep in mind that hb's also the guy who picks Lara over Tendulkar

 

[Sir Alex]

Sehwag has inflated performances on flatpitches as he only scored runs against Murali post 2008 (when Murali was obviously past his best) while Hayden scored runs against Murali in Sri Lanka when Murali was at his peak in the early 00s, Sehwag is useless when the ball is moving around and his record shows that. Hayden made allot of runs on flat pitches, but also was able to adapt his batting in different circumstances and actually show the ability to score hundreds in unfavourable batting conditions.

Sehwag is the biggest flat track bully of his generation and his averaged has only catapulted in the last year or so because he hasn't played any matches outside of the subcontient. Look at how good Sehwag was in his last series outside of the subcontient in New Zealand, where he came into that series supposedly in 'great form' but yet failed in the Test series.

Even though Sehwag has scored a ton of more runs in the Sri Lanka series - Simon Katich's runs in the last Aus/Pak series count for double because they were done facing a much superior attack in difficult conditions. Sehwag would be completely exposed by Asif and Aamer if he was playing against Pakistan in England at the minute because he doesn't move his feet and the ball is hooping round. Katich's record may not be as great as the others, but his definately the best allround Opening Batsman in the world at the present time for mine with Strauss and Smith being the closest contenders.

The likelyhood is, Sehwag will probably end his career with an average of under 40 outside the subcontient - it's more indicative of an away average because the subcontient is more then less an extended home advantage for subcontient batsman to improve their overall records. The only great subcontient batsman are Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Miandad and Sangakkara (although his nowhere near as good as what his overall average suggests). All of them proved themselves as great inside and outside the subcontient.

Sehwag was never better then Hayden during the time that they both were playing the game, Sehwag isn't better then Hayden now and most likely won't be better by the time his career is over.

That is all.

1. Sehwag got to play Murali for the first time in Lanka only in 2008. And that attack comprising of Mendis and Murali owned most of India's batsmen except him. Check out the stats if you think am lying. Murali FTR took 21 wickets @ 22, and if you think that is "past the peak" performance, I can only laugh.

2. Isn't it a bit rich to call Sehwag a flat track bully when Sehwag averages 50 away from home as compared to Matt Hayden who averages 41 away from home? We all know Australian pitches have been largely flat and assisting for batsmen for a long time (check out Sehwag's stats in Aus ) Further Sehwag's 200+ scores have been against Pakistan(thrice), South Africa, Sri lanka (twice). Hayden's two 200+ scores came against Zimbabwe and India.

3. I don't care what Sehwag will average outside the subcontinent. India plays 50% of her matches in India, add another 10% for Sri Lanka and 10% for Pakistan and Bangladesh, and that makes 70% of his contributions and if he does incredibly well in the subcontinent, India as a team would benefit more from it than being a dud at home and good in 30% of matches remaining. Further it is not as if Sehwag is a complete dud outside the subcontinent. He averages better than Hayden (60) in Australia, and 51 in West Indies and Zimbabwe. He in all likelihood will better the averages in SA and England in the coming years.

 

[honestbharani]

You have to keep in mind that hb's also the guy who picks Lara over Tendulkar

Voice of Reason, Joe.. Voice of reason...

 

[Sir Alex]

I kinda get what HB is saying. Although I'd pick Hobbs and Sutcliffe above all openers I think picking them is just as logical as picking Hutton and Gavaskar TBF. They have different strengths but they are both incredibly good.

Hobbs happened to play most of his cricket in an era when 40 was supposed to be the hallmark of greatness and outdid his peers by a huge margin, in terms of both runs as well as averages.

Look at the stats from 1908 - 1925,

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

I think that is a phenomenal achievement.

 

[Himannv]

3. I don't care what Sehwag will average outside the subcontinent. India plays 50% of her matches in India, add another 10% for Sri Lanka and 10% for Pakistan and Bangladesh, and that makes 70% of his contributions and if he does incredibly well in the subcontinent, India as a team would benefit more from it than being a dud at home and good in 30% of matches remaining. Further it is not as if Sehwag is a complete dud outside the subcontinent. He averages better than Hayden (60) in Australia, and 51 in West Indies and Zimbabwe. He in all likelihood will better the averages in SA and England in the coming years.

I thought its 50% in India and 50% in Sri Lanka. Remember, according to our cricket boards, they are the only 2 countries in the world!!!

 

[Sir Alex]

I thought its 50% in India and 50% in Sri Lanka. Remember, according to our cricket boards, they are the only 2 countries in the world!!!

 

[kingkallis]

I thought its 50% in India and 50% in Sri Lanka. Remember, according to our cricket boards, they are the only 2 countries in the world!!!

True!

Would love to see how Sehwag fares in testing conditions...

 

[honestbharani]

I thought its 50% in India and 50% in Sri Lanka. Remember, according to our cricket boards, they are the only 2 countries in the world!!!

I really hope they do that.. We will finally have contenders to Bradman's throne.. at least statistically..

 

[Sir Alex]

True!

Would love to see how Sehwag fares in testing conditions...

What are these "testing conditions"?