The Best of The Rest - NZ, WI, Pak, Bang in tests

[WindieWeathers]

At the same time i still think Pak will be leading the tier 2 section....possibly can over come NZ as well...however, beating teams like Eng, Ind, SA, Aus is what my post was mostly directed at.....i still think Pak side will, not as comfortably, but still pull off wins against Bang, WI, Zim etc...

Plus i am very happy with our bowling....i don't think you can knock their performance down to only "some good spells"...they have been pretty consistent through out...and have dominated for the most part the opposition batsmen..had it not been for poor fielding and dropped catches the results would have been a lot better....

Well i think you'd beat Nz, Bang and Zim but against us i think it's a different story, our bowling unit has had the best sides in trouble over the past 18 months, England all out for 50, Aus all out for 150, we had SA 107/5 and 123/5 too (without Taylor and Edwards) and when you consider Pak's batting line-up right now it's hard to see them getting over 200 against us tbh.

With our strongest batting line-up i'd be confident we could have a few good knocks, we did against SA without Barath, Sarwan and Samuels so the signs are good i'd say.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

And yet those two players haven't guided Pak to a test series win in the last four years?!!.. yep they must be "incredible"



Yeah sure!!.. and the sky is purple isn't it? if you really think Pak's team only need two players to transform the shambles we've seen over the past week then you're living in the clouds imo,



Excuse me since 2006 they've played 11 test series which is pretty much the same as WI, if they are so "great" why haven't they managed to win a series and we have? and furthermore it's not like they haven't played a test series at home in the last four years so don't make that excuses as it's feeble in the extreme.




Why exclude Zim and Bang? oh yeah because it suits your argument right?!!

Do you even read what is posted?

Pak's and WI's respective records since 2007.

Cricinfo.com Statsguru - Pakistan - Test matches - Team analysis

Cricinfo.com Statsguru - West Indies - Test matches - Team analysis

Again,the fact that WI won a series in early 09 at home against England means little.That was their first series win since May 04 against Bangladesh - and see I am doing it your way by not excl. minnows! Want to compare how many series Pak have won since 2004?

I didn't count series against Bang/Zim because I didn't think it was important.If your argument is that WI are a better side than Bang and Zim,no arguments from me there

But the fact is WI last series win away from home against a non-minnow side was in 1995

Pakistan's was in 2006

Hey,using your logic here :

West Indies' last series win was in Feb 09 against England.
Bangladesh's last series win was in July 09 against West Indies

Given that WI haven't won a series since April 09 and Bangladesh have,doesn't that mean Bang are a better side than WI

 

[Avada Kedavra]

That's not luck, though. That's just waiting for Pakistan to be Pakistan. Considering it happens in every game they play at some point, it can't really be considered a chance happening.

Yeah but you're comparing what NZ actually did vs what Pakistan could have done. They're not the same thing. Potential means squat, Pakistan only really have any credibility right now because they actually beat Australia, not because of what they could have done in the series here or against NZ.

And NZ performance in the first Test was far less about luck than good solid Test cricket. They put on 400 in the first dig despite excellent bowling by Pakistan both digs and defended a middling score with a good solid team effort. Credit where it's due, eh?

Ok fair enough but then you could add the million catches Farhat and Butt dropped in that first test.Is that luck though or just incompetency?I don't know,you decide.

I am not saying NZ fluked a win or anything to that effect,they thoroughly deserved it considering how well Bond bowled.

I'm only saying that the only thing that really matters is the scoreline and that was 1-1.I'll concede that NZ had the upper hand in the third test.But I am not sure if that can be used to claim they should have won the series.So Pak matched NZ away,can the current NZ side match Pak at home?I don't see a Bond-less NZ attack doing well on flatter pitches,tbh.I reckon Pak would comfortably beat NZ at home with Asif,Amir and Gul.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Again,the fact that WI won a series in early 09 at home against England means little.That was their first series win since May 04 against Bangladesh - and see I am doing it your way by not excl. minnows! Want to compare how many series Pak have won since 2004?

What the hell do you mean "it means little"? so Pak only drawing a series against Aus "means something"? the bottom line is we beat a top side and won the series which is something Pak hasn'r done since 2006, you can't change the facts.

I didn't count series against Bang/Zim because I didn't think it was important.If your argument is that WI are a better side than Bang and Zim,no arguments from me there

I think you need to convince others as the way people put down WI around here you'd think we were the lowest of the low!!.

But the fact is WI last series win away from home against a non-minnow side was in 1995

Pakistan's was in 2006

Hey,using your logic here :

West Indies' last series win was in Feb 09 against England.
Bangladesh's last series win was in July 09 against West Indies

Given that WI haven't won a series since April 09 and Bangladesh have,doesn't that mean Bang are a better side than WI

Using the Bang test is pretty desperate as all our players we're on strike and we had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to put a side together, it couldn't even be classed as a "reserve side" it was that bad, so that argument doesn't work i'm afraid.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

lol it is pointless trying to reason with you WW.Not sure if you even read my posts.Pakistan are easily the best side of the 4, followed by NZ. WI are next but they are closer to Bang than they are to NZ.If you are labouring under the delusion that current WI side wouldn't get pwned into oblivion by Pak home or away,then there isn't much I can do.

 

[WindieWeathers]

lol it is pointless trying to reason with you WW.Not sure if you even read my posts.Pakistan are easily the best side of the 4, followed by NZ. WI are next but they are closer to Bang than they are to NZ.If you are labouring under the delusion that current WI side wouldn't get pwned into oblivion by Pak home or away,then there isn't much I can do.

Yeah you claim "i can't be reasoned with" but blatantly ignore the facts that have been put in front of you!! , i would have thought the beating they took the other day would have made some people see sense but obviously it hasn't!!, until Pak prove they can actually win a series i'm sorry to tell you they aren't better than WI, it's that simple.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah like those two guys were winning games for Pak before they went out the side right? and also Pak pretty much just have Aamer and Asif in the bowling dapartment, the others are pretty average and once the ball turns old Pak's pace attack seems to run out of ideas.

You seem to want to seperate the units to suit your argument, WI strongest team >>>>>>>>> Paks it's as simple as that.

I think you're being a tad unfair to Umar Gul tbh, especially considering how much you seem to rate Jerome Taylor and Fidel Edwards.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I think you're being a tad unfair to Umar Gul tbh, especially considering how much you seem to rate Jerome Taylor and Fidel Edwards.

I just think he's far too sporadic to be considered in the same class as Aamer and Asif, i've never said Jerome is the best but when he's fit and in form he can be devastating, his spell against England at Sabina park was as good as it gets tbh.

 

[Faisal1985]

What the hell do you mean "it means little"? so Pak only drawing a series against Aus "means something"? the bottom line is we beat a top side and won the series which is something Pak hasn'r done since 2006, you can't change the facts.



I think you need to convince others as the way people put down WI around here you'd think we were the lowest of the low!!.



Using the Bang test is pretty desperate as all our players we're on strike and we had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to put a side together, it couldn't even be classed as a "reserve side" it was that bad, so that argument doesn't work i'm afraid.

So what happened last time you met Australia? Why do you keep on talking about the 1 test/series win against England in 2009? in the end it was 1 test win ..right? (if i am not wrong)...after that you lost to Bangladesh....we didn't...we leveled NZ, we lost to Australia just like you did...and we leveled against Australia again...so i don't understand why you keep on pounding on 1 test against Eng that you narrowly won to win the series...look what happened after that....your time frame is all over the place...

Your main team was on strike against Bang...fair enough....but your full strength team lost to Australia in Australia....we just leveled against them with a batting line up that a high school team would bowl out!

I seriously don't understand your logic...

 

[Faisal1985]

Yeah you claim "i can't be reasoned with" but blatantly ignore the facts that have been put in front of you!! , i would have thought the beating they took the other day would have made some people see sense but obviously it hasn't!!, until Pak prove they can actually win a series i'm sorry to tell you they aren't better than WI, it's that simple.

Dude...how many tests you won in that series????????

 

[Faisal1985]

Well i think you'd beat Nz, Bang and Zim but against us i think it's a different story, our bowling unit has had the best sides in trouble over the past 18 months, England all out for 50, Aus all out for 150, we had SA 107/5 and 123/5 too (without Taylor and Edwards) and when you consider Pak's batting line-up right now it's hard to see them getting over 200 against us tbh.

With our strongest batting line-up i'd be confident we could have a few good knocks, we did against SA without Barath, Sarwan and Samuels so the signs are good i'd say.

lol... Its funny how you completely write off our bowling line up....our spinners would be dangerous on WI pitches as well....

I wouldn't say it would be easy to win against WI but i am sure Pak can pull off wins against WI.

 

[Jezroy]

How many times do i have to say THEY WON ONE TEST!!.. NOT A SERIES!!, how ironic is it that certain people write off our win against England last year but then go out of their way to bring up Paks DRAWN SERIES?!!! it just stinks of double standards imo!! .

One test?

One test can win you a series remember?

Of course you do.

 

[Jezroy]

With our strongest batting line-up i'd be confident we could have a few good knocks, we did against SA without Barath, Sarwan and Samuels so the signs are good i'd say.

The signs have been good for the West Indies for a long time but they still fail to deliver.

I remember saying in 1998 to my dad that they were starting to look good again, but they have been horribly inconsistent ever since then. How can you not see that?

 

[Furball]

I seriously don't understand your logic...

And there's your mistake - thinking that WW actually uses logic.

 

[Jezroy]

And there's your mistake - thinking that WW actually uses logic.

There is a logic.

WI>>>>>>>>Than they actually are.

 

[Flem274*]

That's an ideology *pedant*

 

[Flem274*]

MY NAME IS CAPS LOCK HEAR ME ROAR!!!

xx

 

[zaremba]

How many times do i have to say THEY WON ONE TEST!!.. NOT A SERIES!!, how ironic is it that certain people write off our win against England last year but then go out of their way to bring up Paks DRAWN SERIES?!!! it just stinks of double standards imo!! .

my ears hurt

 

[WindieWeathers]

So what happened last time you met Australia? Why do you keep on talking about the 1 test/series win against England in 2009? in the end it was 1 test win ..right? (if i am not wrong)...after that you lost to Bangladesh....we didn't...we leveled NZ, we lost to Australia just like you did...and we leveled against Australia again...so i don't understand why you keep on pounding on 1 test against Eng that you narrowly won to win the series...look what happened after that....your time frame is all over the place...

Your main team was on strike against Bang...fair enough....but your full strength team lost to Australia in Australia....we just leveled against them with a batting line up that a high school team would bowl out!

I seriously don't understand your logic...

Lol well even against Aus we had half our team out for some of the Tests and lets be realistic here we played them IN AUSTRALIA!!, playing them in conditions they aren't suited to like England is a much easier task imo, and yes we lost the series but we put up just as much a fight as Pak did in the second test, it just didn't go our way in the end and it ended in a draw.

The bottom line is yes we only won one test against England but guess what? THEY HAD ANOTHER FOUR TESTS TO LEVEL THE SERIES but we held on, Pak couldn't even dream of doing something like that today!! , and i'll spell out my logic for you so you can understand...

Until Pak actually WIN a series for the first time in four years they are not better than WI, simple.

 

[WindieWeathers]

And there's your mistake - thinking that WW actually uses logic.

Can someone make this man a mod again please? he didn't cry like a baby when people disagreed with him back then!! .