*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[Smudge]

Is it me or does the women who is cheering (top left) is missing some front teeth?

Welcome to England, Craigos

Fixed.

 

[Furball]

The same squad bar Alonso and Arbeloa got 2nd last year. Pretending as if the squad is crap is disingenuous. I personally think we lack depth but our first XI (on form, ehem) is on par with any team in the world.

Liverpool were carried to 2nd place by Torres and Gerrard. Torres has spent much of this season injured and Gerrard has been out of form, and they've dropped to a mid-table side. That's not indicative of a good squad, or a good manager, given that he's been in the job 6 years.

Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have all suffered from injuries to key players this season yet it didn't affect their ability to a) get out of their Champions League group and b) push for the title.

 

[Uppercut]

Very few transfer fees (in fact, most except the ones we play) are paid in one payment, nearly all are paid in several payments over 5 year periods. So yes, you're probably still paying for Carrick (and Anderson, and Nani, and Berbatov, and Veron, and Forlan )

Hay, at least Nani looks like he might be pretty good now. And everyone loved Forlan. He was **** in a loveable kind of way.

Kleberson is the one I'd hate to still be paying for. Four more years of payments for Roque Santa Cruz though...

 

[Uppercut]

And he hasn't wasted 200m. If he has spent that much on players where are they then? We haven't lost much through any player's sales and we probably have the 5th/6th most expensive squad in the league. This is the utter tripe that gets perpetuated constantly with people not having a clue how that money was spent or just how much of that was gained through his own player sales. I am against Benitez for many reasons but his dealing with transfer money and players is commendable.

Yeah but we had this argument before and someone posted that detailed study of all of his transfer dealings that showed he's outspent like, everyone. I don't get how people still make these arguments when the hard facts all scream "Benitez has spent ****ing loads" at the world.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Pretty sure we pay all up front because clubs know we can. We certainly did for Robinho, Tevez and Ade.

 

[Nate]

No, and with good reason tbh.

 

[Ikki]

Liverpool were carried to 2nd place by Torres and Gerrard. Torres has spent much of this season injured and Gerrard has been out of form, and they've dropped to a mid-table side. That's not indicative of a good squad, or a good manager, given that he's been in the job 6 years.

Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal have all suffered from injuries to key players this season yet it didn't affect their ability to a) get out of their Champions League group and b) push for the title.

The greatest myth is that those two carry us. We are reliant on those two arguably more than the other top stars are on their top 2 players, but football is a team game. We beat United and Chelsea without them last year. Pepe Reina is arguably the best keeper in the league. Mascherano is arguably the best holding/destructive midfielder in the world. Carra is up there with the best CBs. It's a starstudded team. Last year Torres missed I think almost as many games as he did this year - and worse, he and Gerrard seemed to get injured at times which meant they barely played together...yet we got 2nd. That year, apart from Ronaldo, Kuyt had the most assists/goals of any wideman in the league and Benayoun came into his own in the 2nd half of the season. The problem is not any one person. Anyway, this is a digression, as I said, it was essentially the same squad as last year. You cannot possibly say the players weren't/aren't good enough to challenge for the league as they already proved last year they were.

Yeah but we had this argument before and someone posted that detailed study of all of his transfer dealings that showed he's outspent like, everyone. I don't get how people still make these arguments when the hard facts all scream "Benitez has spent ****ing loads" at the world.

No, that argument was never right or proved right. The fact that United did their spending well before Benitez got in charge (as I remember was a point of contention) was one of the main talking points.

As I said, add up the cost of the players we have in our team. It's not even as expensive as Tottenham's IIRC. I think it's the 6th most expensive squad. How can he possibly outspend everyone yet have a squad worth less? It doesn't make sense. Like that argument you allude to.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Carra is up there with the best CBs.

 

[Ikki]

Lame.

He certainly is and despite the fact that every defender bar him was injured for a length of time we still ended up with the 3rd best defensive record in the league (United 28 goals against, Chelsea 32, Liverpool 35) and have been among the best in Europe for years.

He's a quality defender, there is no question of that.

 

[Jarquis]

Carra is up there with the best CBs. .

Who are you trying to kid?

How can he possibly outspend everyone yet have a squad worth less?

Because he pays more than players are worth... simples.

 

[Ikki]

Who are you trying to kid?

Because he pays more than players are worth... simples.

The irony.

Genius, I am talking about the prices he paid. Compare the prices he paid for his players with the prices Ferguson has paid for his players. How has Benitez spent more yet has a squad that has less value (in terms of prices paid)? Rooney, Berbatov and Ferdinand alone make up more than half the cost of our squad.

 

[The Sean]

Because transfer spend isn't just what you paid for the players currently in your squad. Players bought and then discarded or sold still count.

Transfer League

 

[Ikki]

Because transfer spend isn't just what you paid for the players currently in your squad. Players bought and then discarded or sold still count.

Transfer League

Exactly. That's why the argument that Benitez got a lot of money to spend is tripe - worse to say he wasted it. The players that he bought are in the team right now - just add up that value. I think the biggest loss we made on a player was for Keane. Most of the time we broke even or made a bit of a profit. On Alonso we made a big profit.

He would buy a player, sell that player for one that was a bit better and did this over several positions. We only have 2 players left since he first joined (Gerrard and Carragher) and he has also revamped the youth system. He has spent that money on many players and used many of those players to fund other players. That's why that number is high, prima facie.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Revamped the youth system to be slightly less ****, or what?

 

[Furball]

Exactly. That's why the argument that Benitez got a lot of money to spend is tripe - worse to say he wasted it. The players that he bought are in the team right now - just add up that value. I think the biggest loss we made on a player was for Keane. Most of the time we broke even or made a bit of a profit. On Alonso we made a big profit.

He would buy a player, sell that player for one that was a bit better and did this over several positions. We only have 2 players left since he first joined (Gerrard and Carragher) and he has also revamped the youth system. He has spent that money on many players and used many of those players to fund other players. That's why that number is high, prima facie.

He's spent £250m trying to assemble a squad to win the league.

That you finished 7th shows how good a job he's done.

Christ, even Chelsea, lavish spenders when Mourinho arrived, have only spent £27m more than Liverpool. In that time frame, they've got 3 league titles to show for it - Liverpool on the other hand have have one solitary 2nd place and have twice finished outside the top 4.

The fact Benitez has had to "recycle" so many players shows that his judgement in the first place is extremely flawed. £10m for Kuyt, £20m for Robbie Keane, £10m+ for Babel, £11m for Mark Gonzalez...that's £50m of dross right there.

Arsenal, on the other hand, have spent less than the rest of the top 7, and only fractionally more than Sunderland and West Ham, lost van Persie and Fabregas for significant chunks of the season, and still managed to challenge for the title.

 

[Uppercut]

No, that argument was never right or proved right. The fact that United did their spending well before Benitez got in charge (as I remember was a point of contention) was one of the main talking points.

I don't see what any of this has to do with United. Benitez has spent a net £110 million since arriving, more than any club in the Premiership bar Citeh and Chelsea, and Liverpool are still poo. That's a fact, you can't get away from it no matter what spin you try to put on it.

 

[Ikki]

He's spent £250m trying to assemble a squad to win the league.

That you finished 7th shows how good a job he's done.

Christ, even Chelsea, lavish spenders when Mourinho arrived, have only spent £27m more than Liverpool. In that time frame, they've got 3 league titles to show for it - Liverpool on the other hand have have one solitary 2nd place and have twice finished outside the top 4.

The fact Benitez has had to "recycle" so many players shows that his judgement in the first place is extremely flawed. £10m for Kuyt, £20m for Robbie Keane, £10m+ for Babel, £11m for Mark Gonzalez...that's £50m of dross right there.

Arsenal, on the other hand, have spent less than the rest of the top 7, and only fractionally more than Sunderland and West Ham, lost van Persie and Fabregas for significant chunks of the season, and still managed to challenge for the title.

You don't get it; if I buy Bellamy for 7 million and then sell him for the same amount and buy Riera for 7 million I am recycling the same 7 million. Yet that figure goes to 14 million spent in total...when in reality it was the same initial investment being reinvested. Nothing more.

Gonzalez cost 1.5 million, Kuyt would still fetch 10 million and has been worth his money (look I don't even like him, but there is no doubting his efficacy) Babel is still young and is still improving, Keane was sold for a fee that will potentially be 16 million.

The fact that you think we've only spent 27 million less than Chelsea is the scary thing...if you seriously think that you need to find a new hobby. You're arguing nonsense.

Revamped the youth system to be slightly less ****, or what?

Well yes, to win the reserves league, at least . We've brought in new players and coaches. Namely Rodolfo Borrell from Barca.

 

[Ikki]

I don't see what any of this has to do with United. Benitez has spent a net £110 million since arriving, more than any club in the Premiership bar Citeh and Chelsea, and Liverpool are still poo. That's a fact, you can't get away from it no matter what spin you try to put on it.

It's not a fact. We were poo this year and with basically the same squad almost won the title last year. The 110 million he has spent is in the squad. It's not gone. All bar Carra and Gerrard were brought by him. Are you seriously suggesting that he couldn't make up that 110 mill if he were to sell? He could make up half of that off 1 player alone.

Also, the fact that United sold Ronaldo for a ridiculous fee hides the fact that we have been regularly been outspent by them; and also the fact that United bought many of her expensive players before Benitez even stepped foot into Liverpool hides just how much again he has been competing against.

 

[Furball]

You don't get it; if I buy Bellamy for 7 million and then sell him and buy Riera for 7 million I am recycling the same 7 million. Yet that figure goes to 14 million spend in total...when in reality it was the same initial investment being reinvested. Nothing more.

Gonzalez cost 1.5 million, Kuyt would still fetch 10 million and has been worth his money (look I don't even like him, but there is no doubting his efficacy) Babel is still young and is still improving, Keane was sold for a fee that will potentially be 16 million.

The fact that you think we've only spent 27 million less than Chelsea is the scary thing...if you seriously think that you need to find a new hobby. You're arguing non-sense.

I do get it, it's just a shaky argument at best.

If you buy Bellamy for £7m, sell him and buy Riera for £7m, that's £14m you've spent on players, regardless of what you've brought in. Liverpool have spent £250m on transfers since Benitez came to the club. If you're constantly selling players you've bought, your judgement is seriously wrong.

 

[Jarquis]

Well yes, to win the reserves league, at least . We've brought in new players and coaches. Namely Rodolfo Borrell from Barca.

But not the U18s league