*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[Sir Alex]

Not really, McGrath took Laras wicket for less than ten runs something like 10 times meaning he never really lasted long enough for the others to get a crack at him. I'm sure Lara went for a few ducks to McGrath.

Ok

 

[Jono]

Laxmans record against Warne is not to hot either.

Never said it was.

Just said I believe Laxman to be a better player of spin than Dravid.

 

[Ikki]

It becomes a bit of a circular argument though, if you played Warne well you're a top player of spin, if you didn't you're a poor one...

Yes, and also if you made big scores it wasn't like you only faced Warne...McGrath and the others were there too.

 

[GotSpin]

This should be fun

 

[Migara]

Who were the top batsman of Warne's era?
England:
Stewart, Thorpe, Atherton, Trescothick, Hussain, Pietersen, Vaughan, Strauss, Butcher?

No one except KP and Thope were remotley good against quality spin. (Warne & Murali, and othr spinners on helpful tracks), and Warne dominated all of them perhaps KP.

India:
Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Sehwag, Azharuddin

Ommisiion of Sidhu looks dubious. He's the one who killed Warne. Only Dravid and Ganguly struggled against him. but I have not seen Warne vs Ganguly at is peak (1997 - 2001)

New Zealand:
Fleming, Astle

Neither are quality players of spin, But certainly were good.

Pakistan:
Inzamam, Anwar, MoYo, Younis

Greatest of myths is that Pakistanis are good against spin, at least for the current crop. Every great Pakistan batsman of current era struggled against Murali and Warne. Few who were good against spin were Afridi, SHoaib Malik and Salim Malik. Miandada and his contemparies were sublime in playing spin.

South Afirca:
Kallis, Kirsten, Gibbs, Smith

No one here is a great player of spin.

Sri Lanka:
Jayasuriya, Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Atapattu, de Silva,

De Silva's weaker point ws playing spin. He was Warne's bunny in 1995 tour, Kumble's before that. Somehow he pulled up his socks and played Warne well subsequently, and reduced Kumble in to a slow medium bowler in subsequent tours. Sanagkkara's weak point is also playing spin. He never got a decent enough run against Warne either in tests or ODIs. Jayasuriya is hit and miss against any body. Warne got him some times, but when set he sent Warne packing. Atapattu did well against Warne, nothing spectacular though. Jayawardane always has been a good player of spin, and he actually did well in ODIs. But it was Gurusinghe, Tillekaratne, Ranatunga and Kaluwitharana who took Warne by the scruff of the neck and attacked him.

West Indies:
Lara, Chanderpaul, Hooper, Gayle

Gayle hit and miss. Other three are great players of spin. Hooper was so good against Warne, Waug use to take Warne off and bring himself and Brendon Julian when Hooper came to the crease.

Zim:
Flower brothers

Andy is, but not Grant. Murali's bunny.

 

[Ikki]

Not really, McGrath took Laras wicket for less than ten runs something like 10 times meaning he never really lasted long enough for the others to get a crack at him. I'm sure Lara went for a few ducks to McGrath.

The series in 96 kinda illustrates this. Lara went for 26, 44, 2, 1, 2, 2, 9, 78 and 138.

McGrath got him 5 times.
Warne got him 3 times.
Reiffel got him 1 time.

 

[silentstriker]

The truly great players of spin that I've seen have been Tendulkar, Lara, Sehwag, and Flower (Andy). That's it from what I've seen. There've been lots of very good players of spin, but the truly great (e.g, the very top echelon)? That I'd limit it to those four from people I've seen live.

I am not sure about how Warne did vs. Andy Flower, and I don't think Sehwag faced Warne too much (I can't remember any great battles off the top of my head). Lara and Tendulkar got the better of him.

On the other hand, it's much harder for a spin bowler to have a flawless record than it is for a fast bowler (really only Warne and Murali come close in the modern era), so the question is a bit unfair if you're comparing only spinners. The same people who got on top of Warne, generally got on top of all other spinners too, so comparatively against other spinners, Warne really doesn't lose anything.

 

[Athlai]

Wickets vs. Innings - Warne's Big Bunnies

Strauss 8 from 20 - 40%
Sangakkara 4 from 10 - 40%
Sehwag 3 from 8 - 38%
Hussain 11 from 33 - 33%
Dravid 8 from 24 - 33%
Chanderpaul 5 from 15 - 33%
Stewart 14 from 45 - 31%
Thorpe 9 from 29 - 31%
Trescothick 8 from 26 - 31%
Jayawardene 4 from 14 - 29%
Astle 7 from 27 - 26%
Butcher 7 from 28 - 25%
Pietersen 5 from 20 - 25%
Laxman 5 from 20 - 25%
Anwar 3 from 12 - 25%
Atherton 10 from 44 - 23%
Gibbs 7 from 30 - 23%
Inzamam 5 from 22 - 23%
de Silva 3 from 13 - 23%
Fleming 6 from 27 - 22%
Kallis 7 from 35 - 20%
Lara 7 from 36 - 19%
Vaughan 3 from 16 - 19%
Smith 3 from 16 - 19%
Hooper 4 from 22 - 18%
MoYo 2 from 12 - 17%
Younis 2 from 12 - 17%
Kirsten 5 from 34 - 15%
Tendulkar 3 from 22 - 14%
Azharuddin 1 from 8 - 13%
Atapattu 2 from 17 - 12%
Jayasuriya 2 from 18 - 11%
Ganguly 2 from 20 - 10%


*all players bolded scored over 35 runs on average against Australia with Warne in the team, all non bolded therefore averaged less than 35

 

[Athlai]

Also Migara note that I wasn't listing great players of spin merely the best or better batsman of the era.

 

[G.I.Joe]

If fast bowlers didn't exist, Sidhu would have been the scariest and best batsman around. He was Sehwag times 10 when it came to dismissing spinners.

 

[Athlai]

Sidhu was 2 for 8 - 25% and averaged 50 in those matches.

 

[Streetwise]

De Silva's weaker point ws playing spin. He was Warne's bunny in 1995 tour, Kumble's before that. Somehow he pulled up his socks and played Warne well subsequently, and reduced Kumble in to a slow medium bowler in subsequent tours. Sanagkkara's weak point is also playing spin. He never got a decent enough run against Warne either in tests or ODIs. Jayasuriya is hit and miss against any body. Warne got him some times, but when set he sent Warne packing. Atapattu did well against Warne, nothing spectacular though. Jayawardane always has been a good player of spin, and he actually did well in ODIs. But it was Gurusinghe, Tillekaratne, Ranatunga and Kaluwitharana who took Warne by the scruff of the neck and attacked him.

.

Isnt Sri Lanka one place Warne completely dominated. He mesmerised the Lankan batsmen.

 

[Ikki]

Yes, from 95 onwards Warne was pretty dominant against Sri Lankan batsmen, especially in their home.

 

[Migara]

Isnt Sri Lanka one place Warne completely dominated. He mesmerised the Lankan batsmen.

He got better of weaker players of spin. But the better players tonked him around. Ranatunga, Gurusinghe, Tillekaratne, Atapattu and Kaluwitharana have scored centuries against him, some tonking him around (Ranatunga, Kalu) and some grinding him down (Tillekaratne, Atapattu). Gurusinghe was in between, And yes,a agree with Ikki, with retirement of de Silva, Ranatunga, Gurusinghe and Tillekaratne coming to the end of his career made Warne lethal on SL pitches, because the next generation were less adapt in playing spin.

 

[Streetwise]

He got better of weaker players of spin. But the better players tonked him around. Ranatunga, Gurusinghe, Tillekaratne, Atapattu and Kaluwitharana have scored centuries against him, some tonking him around (Ranatunga, Kalu) and some grinding him down (Tillekaratne, Atapattu). Gurusinghe was in between, And yes,a agree with Ikki, with retirement of de Silva, Ranatunga, Gurusinghe and Tillekaratne coming to the end of his career made Warne lethal on SL pitches, because the next generation were less adapt in playing spin.

Tillekaratne played Warne 7 times between 92-04 and Warne dismissed him 6 times.

I think you may be stretching it a bit here, Warne by far had the better of Sri Lanka

 

[Migara]

Tillekaratne played Warne 7 times between 92-04 and Warne dismissed him 6 times.

I think you may be stretching it a bit here, Warne by far had the better of Sri Lanka

II would say most of that dismissals would be in 2004 series. 1991-2 series and 1995-6 series Tillekaratne did well against Warne. He never was a flashy stroke player, but a sedate batsman who defended a lot.

 

[Migara]

HP Tillakaratne played 11 innings against Warne, and Warne got him 6 times. And 4 out of that was in 2004 series, where he was dropped subsequently. When he was in form was out only twice to Warne. Once he was on 14, and other time on 119. Until 2004, Tillakarane managed to defend out what ever Warne sent at him. But with poor form in 2004 (he was getting out to Giles FFS), he was no match for Warne.

 

[Pothas]

It becomes a bit of a circular argument though, if you played Warne well you're a top player of spin, if you didn't you're a poor one...

Yes exactly, end of discussion.

 

[Migara]

How many great batsman did Murali dominate?

Having seen the thread abut Warne thought of doing the same thing and having views.

The great players from each countries are like this (open for debate)

Australia
Mark Taylor
Mathew Hayden
Michael Slater
Ricky Ponting
Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh
Mark Waugh
Adam Gilchrist
Simon Katich

England
Graham Thorpe
Kevin Pietersen
Mike Gatting
Michale Atherton
Alec Stewart

India
Azhar
Sachin Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
Rahul Dravid
Saurav Ganguly
NS Sidhu
Virender Sehwag

New Zealand
SP Fleming
Martin Crowe
Ross Taylor

South Africa
Daryll Cullinan
Jaques Kallis
Gary Kirsten
AB de Villiers
Hansie Cronje

West Indies
Brian Lara
Carl Hooper
Shiv Chanderpaul
Richie Richardson

Pakistan
Salim Malik
Inzamam
Md. Yousuf
Younis Khan
Saeed Anwar

 

[Pothas]

I think we have the latest trend,

'The how many great batsman did Ian Sailsbury dominate' thread is surley soon to follow.