Ottis Gibson quits England for Windies role

[Richard]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Ind33d. Marvel at Camps' ability to keep trying in a patently impossible task.

 

[aussie]

Nah this was recently. I'll clarify.

I was saying that Dillon, having actually put up results over the course of his career, was a better bowler than Taylor. Taylor has shown that he certainly should be a better bowler by the end of his career, and a much better one at that. However, as yet he has not actually been a better bowler. Dillon took wickets more frequently and was generally more accurate than Taylor has been thus far. That's why his record is better.

Again, Taylor's potential is obvious. And if he can recover from his current injury and develop, he will certainly be the better bowler. At this stage, however, he is not. Now if you don't think that's a not a fair perspective, so be it.

Haa. Explain to me:

1. What are these wonderful results Dillon put up in his career in test or ODIs?

2. When was Dillon ever more accurate that Taylor?

Dillon was a poor test bowler, as i told you before give me any test series outiside of vs India 2002 in the caribbean when Dillon looked test quality?. Dillon average flatters him a great deal. He was gash.

Since Taylor ran through India in Kingston 06 to now, in this period he was better bowler than Dillon ever was. Taylor currently is easily on par & even better than bowlers like Broad, Gul, Onions & argubaly most of SRI & NZs pace attacks.

Taylor already is a better bowler than Dillon without a doubt.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Haa. Explain to me:

1. What are these wonderful results Dillon put up in his career in test or ODIs?

2. When was Dillon ever more accurate that Taylor?

Dillon was a poor test bowler, as i told you before give me any test series outiside of vs India 2002 in the caribbean when Dillon looked test quality?. Dillon average flatters him a great deal. He was gash.

Since Taylor ran through India in Kingston 06 to now, in this period he was better bowler than Dillon ever was. Taylor currently is easily on par & even better than bowlers like Broad, Gul, Onions & argubaly most of SRI & NZs pace attacks.

Taylor already is a better bowler than Dillon without a doubt.

Dear God... we've gone over this...

1. Did I say they were wonderful results? They're merely better than Taylor's results. Can't see how you can contest that fairly. Dillon took 49 more wickets than Taylor's taken, and he played only 9 more matches. Do the maths. Dillon was also half a run more economical.

2. When he didn't leak runs in the same way Taylor has on a pretty regular basis. Now (based on Barca logic) I know you're going to tell me that the batsmen were just collectively worse when Dillon bowled than when Taylor did, but we both know that's akin to turd.

See, at the core of our disagreement is that you seem to think that Taylor is anything greater than an average-to-below-average bowler. And there is no way that anyone can sanely argue otherwise, based on the fact that Taylor often does not bowl well, and his results reflect it. It doesn't matter how good a bowler looks some of the time, if at the end of the day he's not taking wickets.

That Taylor can bowl extremely well, and can bowl much better than Dillon, does not change the fact that he often does not. As things stand, Dillon has put the results up and Taylor is not even on pace to match them. If you think Dillon was a poor Test bowler, Taylor is a worse one.

Now Taylor has suffered more than his fair share of injury problems, but that shouldn't fact into it at all. It's unfortunate, but it doesn't make him a better bowler because of what he might have accomplished if he was fit all the time.

 

[Craig]

I really do feel sorry for you Liam. You are more patient then I would ever be.

 

[Flem274*]

And you could pass as a stalker if you carry on talking about me on this thread .

Look outside your window...

We call it "The Real World"

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

This is the true story... of seven strangers... picked to live in a house...work together and have their lives taped...

 

[Craig]

Yeah that was "very poor" on his debut against India of course .

I just don't know how scoring 19 runs on debut is considered good. If he scored 59 runs off 56 balls then I might agree with you.

 

[aussie]

Dear God... we've gone over this...

1. Did I say they were wonderful results? They're merely better than Taylor's results. Can't see how you can contest that fairly. Dillon took 49 more wickets than Taylor's taken, and he played only 9 more matches. Do the maths. Dillon was also half a run more economical.

Stats dont tell whole truth. I dont care how much more wickets Dillon got more than Taylor ATS, nor how much tests he played.

Just watching them bowl, Taylor has been test quality for longer. Kingston 2006 to now. The only time Dillon ever looked test quality was vs IND 2002?. Simple.

Has i said before Dillon average of 33 flatters him a great deal. James Anderson averages 33/34 ATM & he clearly is far superior to Dillon.

2. When he didn't leak runs in the same way Taylor has on a pretty regular basis. Now (based on Barca logic) I know you're going to tell me that the batsmen were just collectively worse when Dillon bowled than when Taylor did, but we both know that's akin to turd.

Didn't both Dillon & Taylor play the majority of their careers (in the case of Taylor ALLLLL his career in 200s era)

So don't try be a smart arse with me by trying to twist thIs & try to bring up a past debate of ours to predjude my opinion on Taylor vs Dillon. You CWers are like a girl who lost a her virginity who is pissed the boy never called her back , that debate is OVERRRR, you want to continue that Barca debate?. Go back to football thread, what is the point of bringing it up over & over. Utter foolishness

You talking about Dillon didn't leak runs like Taylor. Dillon 3.03 eco & Taylor 3.55. Lets narrow Taylor career down to period IMO where he has been very good test quality bowler which has been Kingston 2006 to Brisbane 09 where he averaged 32 & is still getting better. That is better than Dillon career average of 33 which is a gross abberation who outside of vs IND 2002 hardly ever looked test quality.

Economy is hardly ever that important in test cricket (unless the bowler is going at over 4 rpo in tests which can be troubling). Its all about wickets. Dale Steyn has an eco of 3.56 thats not an issue he is still the best bowler in the world ATM. So your point falls flat on its face, by trying justify Dillon over Taylor because he had a better ER in tests - again like his overall bowling average that ER flatters him - he clearly wasn't that good.

See, at the core of our disagreement is that you seem to think that Taylor is anything greater than an average-to-below-average bowler. And there is no way that anyone can sanely argue otherwise, based on the fact that Taylor often does not bowl well, and his results reflect it. It doesn't matter how good a bowler looks some of the time, if at the end of the day he's not taking wickets.

Madness. If you think Taylor is just an "average-to-below-average bowler" then i got to say you seriously under-rate your own bowler. I live amongst West Indians here in England, i have cousins in trindad too & none would rate Taylor that lowly. So AFAIS this is minority POV...

That Taylor can bowl extremely well, and can bowl much better than Dillon, does not change the fact that he often does not. As things stand, Dillon has put the results up and Taylor is not even on pace to match them. If you think Dillon was a poor Test bowler, Taylor is a worse one.


Now Taylor has suffered more than his fair share of injury problems, but that shouldn't fact into it at all. It's unfortunate, but it doesn't make him a better bowler because of what he might have accomplished if he was fit all the time.

As i said above Taylor has since Kingston 2006 to now. Has bowled better than Dillon's entire career. I really dont know what Taylor & Dillon you have been watching. I got to say all i'm seeing here is Trinidad bias, under no circumstance was Dillon a superior test bowler to Taylor..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Ok, I know you feel left out, but I don't have time and patience for this, bro.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Look outside your window...

We call it "The Real World"

This THREAD is about Ottis Gibson and carribean cricket, NOT "WindieWeather is a selector", that's what you can't seem to fathom .

 

[WindieWeathers]

I just don't know how scoring 19 runs on debut is considered good. If he scored 59 runs off 56 balls then I might agree with you.

Yeah of course it isn't a mind blowing score, but for someone making his debut against the best side in the world i'd say it's a very decent knock, and that experience will only do him good in the future.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

And clearly you didn't "know" how to make a conducive contribution to the thread either

I've been brave enough to say i want a legend who's clearly on a downward spiral to be dropped, BIG DEAL.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Not really - I thought you were talking about some teenaged West Indians and didn't read every word of your post with clarity.

Hahaha that's the most frivolous excuse i've heard for a while, i clearly mentioned "Test cricket" in combination with Parnell and Aamer so you're not fooling me with that one Richard .

 

[WindieWeathers]

Anyway folks here's some other news..

Browne and Charles out, three teens in

2/5/2010

By Alan Harris

Teenagers Kraigg Brathwaite, Jason Holder and wicket-keeper/batsman Shane Dowrich – all of whom were part of the West Indies Under-19 team to the recently-concluded 2010 Youth World Cup in New Zealand – have been named to the Barbados 13-man squad for the last two rounds of matches in the on-going WICB Regional four-day First-Class competition. Also returning to the squad after a bout with injury is West Indies left-arm spinner Sulieman Benn.

After a thrilling victory over the Windward Islands at Kensington Oval this past week, Barbados will oppose Guyana in the fifth round of matches starting February 12th at the Albion Sports Club in Berbice. As Barbados has drawn a bye for the 7th and final round of matches, their season will climax against current points-leaders Jamaica in Trinidad & Tobago at UWISPEC, starting February 19th.

Dropped from the team are veteran wicket/keeper batsman Patrick Browne and novice leg-spinner Nikolai Charles.

Browne, with some 62 First-Class matches under his belt, has been evidently omitted from the squad due to his miserable returns with the bat this season. With a highest score of 25 and having only racked up 58 runs from seven innings at bat, it is clear that Browne’s continued disappointment with the willow has not sat well with the Courtney Browne-led selection panel.

Contrastingly, though Browne has only managed to average a paltry 9.66 runs with the willow, his glove-work behind the stumps has been nothing short of stupendous. He is also currently the leading wicket-keeper in the competition by way of dismissals, 20 catches and 1 stumping.

Though the 2010 season is drawing to a close, Browne should feel hard-done by the selectors, as without compassion, he was dropped in a similar fashion last season just one dismissal away from the most dismissals in regional first-class history, a record still held by former Barbados wicket-keeper and current chairman of selectors Courtney Browne.

As for Benn, he is yet to play a First-Class match for the season after he underwent ‘remedial and rehabilitative therapy’ on his right knee after picking up an injury while on tour of Australia with the West Indies in December 2009.

Brathwaite, at 17 years of age, is already a prolific opening batsman and has played two first-class matches in his young career. With a staggering 335 runs at an average of 67.00 in six matches – inclusive of four half-centuries – he was also the second highest scoring batsman at the recently-concluded Youth World Cup.

Standing 6ft 6in, Holder, like Brathwaite, made his first-class debut last year. A former Barbados Under-19 captain, Holder was the third highest wicket-taker at the Youth World Cup, ending with 12 scalps at an average of 17.75 and an economy rate of 4.03. Despite his good returns at the World Cup, where his best figures were five for 19, he may find it hard-pressed to make the final cut as a pacer with the likes of Tino Best and Pedro Collins featuring heavily in the side.

Dowrich, 18, was the fifth highest scoring batsman at the Youth World Cup – 229 runs at an average of 45.80 with two fifties and a highest score of 84 not out. Though diligent with the bat, he will certainly have big shoes to fill behind stumps.

Barbados is currently second in the standings with 33 points – three behind front-runners and champions for the past two years, Jamaica.

Squad: Ryan Hinds (captain), Sulieman Benn, Tino Best, Kraigg Brathwaite, Shamarh Brooks, Pedro Collins, Shane Dowrich, Corey Edwards, Kirk Edwards, Jason Haynes, Jason Holder, Dale Richards, Kevin Stoute.

Link

I'm absolutely delighted to see the three young lads in the Barbados side, expecially Holder who looks like a massive talent in the making, i'd be surprised if all of them aren't playing test cricket within the next two years.

 

[shivfan]

I'm going to post this on the domestic cricket thread, Windie, where it's probably more appropriate....

I agree with you there - I wouldn't be surprised to see Holder and Braithwaite playing for the Windies in two years' time, all being well. "Two years' time" being the operative phrase,,,,

But they need to prove themselves in domestic cricket first, just like Darren Bravo.

BTW, can you log on to CMS? I can't get on, site problems affecting me and a handful of others....

 

[WindieWeathers]

I'm going to post this on the domestic cricket thread, Windie, where it's probably more appropriate....

I agree with you there - I wouldn't be surprised to see Holder and Braithwaite playing for the Windies in two years' time, all being well. "Two years' time" being the operative phrase,,,,

But they need to prove themselves in domestic cricket first, just like Darren Bravo.

BTW, can you log on to CMS? I can't get on, site problems affecting me and a handful of others....

Nah i'm unable to log on Mike, i guess there's something wrong with the server?!! as for the Barbados kids, i actually think they'll be in sooner than two years but i didn't bother to say it because i know it would only make you and others have another heart attack .

 

[shivfan]

I've reported it, so they should be working on it....

I'm really keen to see how Holder and Braithwaite play in the remaining matches. I've never been that impressed with Browne - he struck me as a batsman who tried to keep wicket, much like Baugh. I hope Dowrich is better, but we'll see. So far, none of our regional keepers - bar Ramdin - have shown any ability with the bat this domestic season.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I've reported it, so they should be working on it....

I'm really keen to see how Holder and Braithwaite play in the remaining matches. I've never been that impressed with Browne - he struck me as a batsman who tried to keep wicket, much like Baugh. I hope Dowrich is better, but we'll see. So far, none of our regional keepers - bar Ramdin - have shown any ability with the bat this domestic season.

Ramdin really gets on my nerves, i actually think he's a good wicket keeper, he rarely lets one slip from his hands these days but he's so up and down with the bat it's ridiculous, when you see him score 100's at FC level then come to the crease in a test and look so out of his depth it doesn't make sense to me, and i don't trust him batting at 7 right now, i hope Dowrich just keeps improving, he seemed to have all the strokes in the book when i saw him, for me Brathwaite is so good that it wouldn't surprise me if he's involved by the end of the year, he's just so calm at the wicket and makes it look easy, he'll be better than Barath imo, and lastly Holder, the boy looks like a monster and if he adds a little more speed to his game he'll be the total package, i agree that they have to impress for Barbados before anything else happens but i believe it's when not if they play for the Windies.


No doubt my favorite Mods will have a joke up their sleeves about this too!!.

 

[shivfan]

IMHO, Ramdin is still the best gloveman in the region, and as Michael HOlding has always said, a pace bowler always wants the man behind the stumps to be the best keeper in the business. That's the day job - batting is the secondary job, IMO.

But I don't think Ramdin is consistent enough with the bat to bat as seven, nor Bravo at six....

That's why this would be my top seven in the Test team for the first Test against South Africa in May, depending on fitness:

1) Chris Gayle
2) Adrian Barath
3) Ramnaresh Sarwan
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Brendan Nash
6) Narsing Deonarine
7) Dwayne Bravo
8) Denesh Ramdin
The bowlers....

Just to get it back on topic, I hope Gibson, the new coach, sees it that way too....

 

[Richard]

Hahaha that's the most frivolous excuse i've heard for a while, i clearly mentioned "Test cricket" in combination with Parnell and Aamer so you're not fooling me with that one Richard .

You also mentioned that Darren Bravo's 19 off 16 balls in a ODI showed he could bat in ODIs, so it's not remotely clear. I thought you were talking about some teenaged West Indians (IIRR that one's actually someone called Holder) when in fact you were talking about Mohammad Aamer and Wayne Parnell.