shivfan
Banned
Yeah, Baugh can sometimes produce fireworks, much like Leon Garrick, and can then bat brainlessly, much like Leon Garrick....
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Ottis Gibson quits England for Windies role
- Thread starter WindieWeathers
- Start date
Yeah, Baugh can sometimes produce fireworks, much like Leon Garrick, and can then bat brainlessly, much like Leon Garrick....
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Another spin on the story, sounds interesting..
Does anyone think Simmons would have been better? looking at his record he's coached Zimbabwe and Ireland and his record suggests he hasn't performed miracles in both jobs, and when you consider the environment Gibson is coming from i'm happy he's got the job instead, Ottis is also a young coach with fresh ideas which i think is exactly what we need right now.
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Does anyone think Simmons would have been better? looking at his record he's coached Zimbabwe and Ireland and his record suggests he hasn't performed miracles in both jobs, and when you consider the environment Gibson is coming from i'm happy he's got the job instead, Ottis is also a young coach with fresh ideas which i think is exactly what we need right now.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Appreciate you're a Trini rather than a Jamaican (at least, IIRR you are...
Yeah, Baugh can sometimes produce fireworks, much like Leon Garrick, and can then bat brainlessly, much like Leon Garrick....
) but is there any chance you or anyone (Xavier?) could tell me what exactly happened to Leon Garrick? Just seemed to disappear at the sort of age when most batsmen hope to be coming towards the prime of their careers. It'd help me (for my current ongoing project) to know why.
Mr Mxyzptlk
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What's this then?Appreciate you're a Trini rather than a Jamaican (at least, IIRR you are...
shivfan
Banned
Actually, I grew up in Jamaica, but clearly from my comments, you can see I'm an unbiased one....Appreciate you're a Trini rather than a Jamaican (at least, IIRR you are...
I consider myself a Caribbean man. Born in England, grew up in Jamaica, parents now retired and living in Barbados, my best friend's Trini, my honeymoon was in St Vincent, and my fave player is Guyanese....
shivfan
Banned
here's a question or two for Windie....
Imagine you are Ottis Gibson, and you're taking charge of the West Indies for the Zimbabwe ODI series.
Assuming everyone is fit, except Fidel Edwards. Who would be in your XI for the first ODI against Zimbabwe?
Also, assuming you're Gibson, and assuming everyone is fit except Edwards, who would be in your XI for the first Test against the Saffers in May?
Imagine you are Ottis Gibson, and you're taking charge of the West Indies for the Zimbabwe ODI series.
Assuming everyone is fit, except Fidel Edwards. Who would be in your XI for the first ODI against Zimbabwe?
Also, assuming you're Gibson, and assuming everyone is fit except Edwards, who would be in your XI for the first Test against the Saffers in May?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
You surely must've heard me mention it? Stats Spider player profiles. Actually I've been meaning to contact you about the matter, reference to some recent-ish WI players who I might've omitted some details of. Same em@il address as when you departed from the writing team?
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Good questions Mike, no doubt there will be people ready to mock my ideas but i digress, first thing i'd do is have a long stern talk with Chris Gayle, and i'd ask him if his heart is really it in anymore, if the discussion isn't positive then i'd make Dwayne Bravo captain with immediate effect, then i'd sit down and study as many domestic games as possible in an effort to find as much young talent and diamonds in the rough as i can, we know there's more than a few out there who have impressed this season, i'd select maybe 30 of the best ones i've spotted and then organise 4 or 5 trial matches, a selection of the players who does the best would play the first two (or three depending on results) one dayers against Zimbabwe, so for example the starting line-up could be..
Barath
Brathwaite
Kyle Corbin
Darren Bravo
Andre Creary/Chadrika
Kieron Pollard
Imran Khan/Kantasingh/Permaul
Shane Dowrich
Jason Holder
Brandon Bess
Kevin Mclean/ Shannon Gabriel (if his good form continues)
Then we could see who stands out and who doesn't, if they don't impress it doesn't mean they still aren't good talents for the future, but if they do impress then it means we might have someone to bring into the side, we could give them two or three games and then give the "stars" the last two to get some fitness back or save the series, i don't know what condition they are in right now but beating Zimbabwe 5-0 with the stars won't prove anything imo, after that i'd focus on the South Africa games, there's no point putting up a starting line-up without seeing if a few new faces can come through first, and the way South Africa are going we're gonna need something new asap.
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shivfan
Banned
As you can imagine, there's a lot that we disagree on....
1) Trial matches are a waste of time. I've seen them used in Jamaica, and they achieve very little. I don't know why they persist with them. What matters must be the match practice and results achieved in the domestic four-day and one-day competitions.
2) Chris Gayle was the top WI batsman in the Test tour of Australia. There's no question in my mind about his commitment. I'd place more emphasis on that than his form in two ODIs when he's coming back from injury.
3) I see you've also omitted Dwayne Bravo. That's a mistake, IMHO, because Big Bravo is our best bowler, and is an important member of our ODI team.
4) The only selections I agree with are Pollard and Barath.
5) Brathwaite has only played one List A match and two FC matches. He needs more exposure playing for Barbados, and to improve, much as Barath did.
6) Corbin has played nine FC matches for CCC at an average of under 27. Not good enough yet, I'm afraid....
7) Creary has only played two List A matches and one FC match with poor results so far. He needs to make an impact at that level first.
8) Chandrika averages only 30 at the FC level for Guyana. Not good enough yet, I'm afraid....
9) In terms of spinners, I'm sure Imran Khan and Kantasingh will be in the reckoning at some stage or another. I'm not so sure about Permaul, though. However, I don't have a serious problem right now with Benn and Miller being ahead of them in the pecking order.
10) Ramdin's the best gloveman in the region, so why replace him with Dowrich, who's played two List A matches so far, and averages in single figures? He needs more time to prove he can bat at this level before he's considered for the WI side.
11) Jason Holder and Shannon Gabriel, one FC match, two wickets. Need more time at this level.
12) Would you really select Bess and McClean ahead of Roach? Roach has taken 20 wickets at an average of 29 from five Tests, which is pretty good, IMHO. This season so far, Bess has taken 12 wickets in the fourday competition at an average of 24, so I'm sure he'll get a lookin if he keeps that up. But McClean has struggled, managing only six wickets at an expensive average of 41.
13) Once Lil Bravo is fit, he should be considered. But let's see how he does for Trinidad first. Has he recovered his form, and is he back to full fitness yet? We'll only know if we see him playing for Trinidad for the rest of this season....
In addition to Gayle and Big Bravo, I believe Sarwan, Chanderpaul, and Taylor have to be considered, once they're fit. I also think we shouldn't close the door on Deonarine yet. And who knows what Nash, Hinds, Simmons, Dowlin, Morton, Smith, Rampaul and Miller will do in the remaining three ODIs....
1) Trial matches are a waste of time. I've seen them used in Jamaica, and they achieve very little. I don't know why they persist with them. What matters must be the match practice and results achieved in the domestic four-day and one-day competitions.
2) Chris Gayle was the top WI batsman in the Test tour of Australia. There's no question in my mind about his commitment. I'd place more emphasis on that than his form in two ODIs when he's coming back from injury.
3) I see you've also omitted Dwayne Bravo. That's a mistake, IMHO, because Big Bravo is our best bowler, and is an important member of our ODI team.
4) The only selections I agree with are Pollard and Barath.
5) Brathwaite has only played one List A match and two FC matches. He needs more exposure playing for Barbados, and to improve, much as Barath did.
6) Corbin has played nine FC matches for CCC at an average of under 27. Not good enough yet, I'm afraid....
7) Creary has only played two List A matches and one FC match with poor results so far. He needs to make an impact at that level first.
8) Chandrika averages only 30 at the FC level for Guyana. Not good enough yet, I'm afraid....
9) In terms of spinners, I'm sure Imran Khan and Kantasingh will be in the reckoning at some stage or another. I'm not so sure about Permaul, though. However, I don't have a serious problem right now with Benn and Miller being ahead of them in the pecking order.
10) Ramdin's the best gloveman in the region, so why replace him with Dowrich, who's played two List A matches so far, and averages in single figures? He needs more time to prove he can bat at this level before he's considered for the WI side.
11) Jason Holder and Shannon Gabriel, one FC match, two wickets. Need more time at this level.
12) Would you really select Bess and McClean ahead of Roach? Roach has taken 20 wickets at an average of 29 from five Tests, which is pretty good, IMHO. This season so far, Bess has taken 12 wickets in the fourday competition at an average of 24, so I'm sure he'll get a lookin if he keeps that up. But McClean has struggled, managing only six wickets at an expensive average of 41.
13) Once Lil Bravo is fit, he should be considered. But let's see how he does for Trinidad first. Has he recovered his form, and is he back to full fitness yet? We'll only know if we see him playing for Trinidad for the rest of this season....
In addition to Gayle and Big Bravo, I believe Sarwan, Chanderpaul, and Taylor have to be considered, once they're fit. I also think we shouldn't close the door on Deonarine yet. And who knows what Nash, Hinds, Simmons, Dowlin, Morton, Smith, Rampaul and Miller will do in the remaining three ODIs....
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Mike i don't wanna sound rude but did you actually read my post properly? i clearly said i'd use the first two or three one dayers against Zimbabwe to try out new playersAs you can imagine, there's a lot that we disagree on....
1) Trial matches are a waste of time. I've seen them used in Jamaica, and they achieve very little. I don't know why they persist with them. What matters must be the match practice and results achieved in the domestic four-day and one-day competitions.
2) Chris Gayle was the top WI batsman in the Test tour of Australia. There's no question in my mind about his commitment. I'd place more emphasis on that than his form in two ODIs when he's coming back from injury.
3) I see you've also omitted Dwayne Bravo. That's a mistake, IMHO, because Big Bravo is our best bowler, and is an important member of our ODI team.
4) The only selections I agree with are Pollard and Barath.
5) Brathwaite has only played one List A match and two FC matches. He needs more exposure playing for Barbados, and to improve, much as Barath did.
6) Corbin has played nine FC matches for CCC at an average of under 27. Not good enough yet, I'm afraid....
7) Creary has only played two List A matches and one FC match with poor results so far. He needs to make an impact at that level first.
8) Chandrika averages only 30 at the FC level for Guyana. Not good enough yet, I'm afraid....
9) In terms of spinners, I'm sure Imran Khan and Kantasingh will be in the reckoning at some stage or another. I'm not so sure about Permaul, though. However, I don't have a serious problem right now with Benn and Miller being ahead of them in the pecking order.
10) Ramdin's the best gloveman in the region, so why replace him with Dowrich, who's played two List A matches so far, and averages in single figures? He needs more time to prove he can bat at this level before he's considered for the WI side.
11) Jason Holder and Shannon Gabriel, one FC match, two wickets. Need more time at this level.
12) Would you really select Bess and McClean ahead of Roach? Roach has taken 20 wickets at an average of 29 from five Tests, which is pretty good, IMHO. This season so far, Bess has taken 12 wickets in the fourday competition at an average of 24, so I'm sure he'll get a lookin if he keeps that up. But McClean has struggled, managing only six wickets at an expensive average of 41.
13) Once Lil Bravo is fit, he should be considered. But let's see how he does for Trinidad first. Has he recovered his form, and is he back to full fitness yet? We'll only know if we see him playing for Trinidad for the rest of this season....
In addition to Gayle and Big Bravo, I believe Sarwan, Chanderpaul, and Taylor have to be considered, once they're fit. I also think we shouldn't close the door on Deonarine yet. And who knows what Nash, Hinds, Simmons, Dowlin, Morton, Smith, Rampaul and Miller will do in the remaining three ODIs....
, playing the same overrated "stars" for the whole series won't prove anything, right now our side is so predictable and boring, it's just the same old faces who continue to fail, yes there is class in there like Barath, Dwayne Bravo, Roach and Taylor on his day but other than that there's nothing to get excited about, i'm focusing on the actual talent of the players, not so much their Fc records, because as Dowlin and Morton have shown that doesn't mean sh/t when you're under pressure at the crease, i didn't bother asking you for your starting line-up because quite frankly i already know it, and the very same players you are championing will come up short again when we vplay South Africa.
shivfan
Banned
I think that would be a mistake....
Our third-string side lost both Tests and all ODIs against Bangladesh. The side you picked would also lose all the ODIs against Zimbabwe. It would be unwise to underestimate the strength of this Zimbabwe side. Sending youngsters in to lose all the ODIs against Zimbabwe would be counter-productive, IMHO....
Our third-string side lost both Tests and all ODIs against Bangladesh. The side you picked would also lose all the ODIs against Zimbabwe. It would be unwise to underestimate the strength of this Zimbabwe side. Sending youngsters in to lose all the ODIs against Zimbabwe would be counter-productive, IMHO....
WindieWeathers
International Regular
No you THINK they would lose all the games, it's an opinion, not a fact, i don't know how much you've seen of Holder, Brathwaite, Bess etc but i can assure you they'd put up a much better fight than the clowns in the WI shirt in Australia today, btw Roach played in that test against Bangladesh didn't he? so it just proves my point that good things can come from giving young players a chance, Bess has 12 wickets this season, you wrote off Corbin but maybe forgot to realise he's only 19 and has got over 100 runs in two games for CCC this season, also Shannon Gabriel is already exciting the selectors with his pace so i think my picks were realistic.
shivfan
Banned
I have not written any of the youngsters off....
I just think it's foolhardy to play them until they've made an impact at the FC level first. How are they going to cope with Saffer bowlers like Steyn and Morkel in Test cricket if they can't score heavily in FC cricket in the Caribbean?
Potential in an U-19 ODI competition can only carry you so far....
If you think that side that you picked above can beat Zimbabwe, then you are seriously under-estimating the Zimbabweans.
I just think it's foolhardy to play them until they've made an impact at the FC level first. How are they going to cope with Saffer bowlers like Steyn and Morkel in Test cricket if they can't score heavily in FC cricket in the Caribbean?
Potential in an U-19 ODI competition can only carry you so far....
If you think that side that you picked above can beat Zimbabwe, then you are seriously under-estimating the Zimbabweans.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
But the only player i picked without FC experience was Shane DowrichI have not written any of the youngsters off....
I just think it's foolhardy to play them until they've made an impact at the FC level first. How are they going to cope with Saffer bowlers like Steyn and Morkel in Test cricket if they can't score heavily in FC cricket in the Caribbean?
Potential in an U-19 ODI competition can only carry you so far....
If you think that side that you picked above can beat Zimbabwe, then you are seriously under-estimating the Zimbabweans.
.. who will be making his Fc debut for Barbados in the next few days, also didn't Brathwaite, Creary and Mclean all get called up to the squad to face Bangladesh? so it proves that they are already on the selectors minds, all i'm saying is we should give these youngsters a chance to prove themselves in the first two one dayers, if we lose them then fair enough we can bring back the stars and win the final three games but if they impress then we just might gain another Barath or Roach, i'm not even talking about South Africa right now, there's ages to go until that series comes around, right now the focus should be on brining through as much young talent as we can, as we're going nowhere with the clowns we've got in the side today.
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shivfan
Banned
Creary, Corbin, Brathwaite, Holder and Gabriel have each played no more than a couple of FC matches. If you add their FC experience together, they will have played no more than about 10 FC matches. And that includes List A games, as well as four-day games....
That doesn't quite count as 'first-class experience'. Also, they haven't exactly impressed in their FC matches, either. They've shown promise, but their returns are not that impressive yet. They need time to notch up some impressive results in FC cricket, before they're ushered into the Test team, IMHO.
That's the road Barath went down, so that's the road I think these five should go down too, and I think Dowrich also needs to go down that road.
Roach played a lot more FC cricket than those six, before he played for the West Indies....
That doesn't quite count as 'first-class experience'. Also, they haven't exactly impressed in their FC matches, either. They've shown promise, but their returns are not that impressive yet. They need time to notch up some impressive results in FC cricket, before they're ushered into the Test team, IMHO.
That's the road Barath went down, so that's the road I think these five should go down too, and I think Dowrich also needs to go down that road.
Roach played a lot more FC cricket than those six, before he played for the West Indies....
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Heeeeeeeelllllllllooooooooooooooooo???Appreciate you're a Trini rather than a Jamaican (at least, IIRR you are...
WindieWeathers
International Regular
You're wrong actually, Corbin made his debut for CCC last year and has played nine FC matches and has scored 453 runs thus far, including three 50's, his last match he got 74 against Guyana too, Brathwaite has played only two FC matches yes but in those two games he's managed to get 137 runs already, so they are clearly showing the signs of being top class players for the future, the bowlers i believe would be a much lesser risk, Bess is one of the leading fast bowlers this season with 12 wickets, Mclean has also played 17 FC matches (with 45 wickets) and has international experience against Bangladesh, looking at our shadow side today it's clear we MUST start to bring through the youth Mike, you might be scared of change but at the end of the day if there's no change we'll continue to get embarrassed like we have been recently.
Craig
World Traveller
Seems like has had a discipline problem with cricketing authorities over the years.