Ottis Gibson quits England for Windies role

[Richard]

BBC Sport - Cricket - Allan Donald interested in England bowling coach role

Result. Was a shame to see him have to leave the position due to family issues last time, as he was supposedly doing an excellent job, so I'd love to see AD back amongst the England coaching staff. Get him on board ECB!

He really does change his mind regularly though.

 

[Richard]

It was though, He bowled way better than his figures suggest.

Well I'm fairly confident if he bowls like that through his Test career he won't enjoy tremendous success. However, he does appear to have the potential to bowl much better, so thus there's hope for him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

It was though, He bowled way better than his figures suggest.

At times, but he didn't keep it up. And at times he was extremely poor (like early on at Perth). He needs to find the right length with more consistency. The good thing is that he's blessed with pace, natural aggression and a lot of brains. But he won't be able to harness those things consistently to good effect until he's more experienced. I mean, he's not exactly come back to domestic cricket and taken it by storm (one innings aside) or anything.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Gonna drop Gayle while you're at it?

There was the allusion to that too, with Gayle out for Brathwaite...

 

[WindieWeathers]

Ok, tell me how Darren Bravo has damn well earned a place in the side, please. Deonarine, sure, but Bravo, please explain.

Imo he's earned a CHANCE, his record might not be as good as Barath's but when you consider Bravo's performance in the ODI combined with his obvious talent why shouldn't he be given a chance? and i thought you said you were gonna "stop"?

 

[WindieWeathers]

If anyone praised him by saying "if he bowls like this all the time he'll be a Test standard bowler" then they were wrong; if they praised him by saying "he's a fine prospect because he's got some useful tools to be working with but he's nowhere near good enough yet" then they were about right. There is no way Roach's bowling in Australia was of Test standard, so thus his bowling in that series at the age of 21 eminently does not support the notion that 21-year-olds can regularly make Test standard cricketers.

Even if you refuse to believe Roach didn't bowl at "test standard" Aamer certainly did and you cannot in a million years tell me he's over 21.

Nope, because matches against Zimbabwe do not merit Test status and being good enough takes a year of performance at the very least.

So if he hasn't justified his call up do you believe he should be dropped then? you can't have it both ways.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Imo he's earned a CHANCE, his record might not be as good as Barath's but when you consider Bravo's performance in the ODI combined with his obvious talent why shouldn't he be given a chance? and i thought you said you were gonna "stop"?

But he's barely played any FC cricket, he's not done much of note in what he's played, and he's done nothing in ODI cricket of note. Where does this equal "deserves a chance at Test cricket". Particularly at the expense of the only proven world class batsman in the team.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It was though, He bowled way better than his figures suggest.

Completely agree, i'm convinced certain people didn't even watch the damn tests.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I can't believe someone wants to drop Chanderpaul.

If you do that, you're going to get killed. He's your best batsman by a country mile. Who cares if he had four bad tests? He had like half a zillion good ones previous.

Gonna drop Gayle while you're at it?

In his current form if he's the best we can offer in the batting department then we won't win anything anyway, so the difference is the same, i'm focused on 2010 not 2008.

 

[marc71178]

Completely agree, i'm convinced certain people didn't even watch the damn tests.

So why are you commenting so much on them then?

 

[WindieWeathers]

There was the allusion to that too, with Gayle out for Brathwaite...

Don't put words in my mouth, i said Brathwaite is gonna come knocking on the door soon, i never said i WANTED Gayle dropped .

 

[Richard]

Even if you refuse to believe Roach didn't bowl at "test standard" Aamer certainly did and you cannot in a million years tell me he's over 21.

There's no way in my book that Aamer has conclusively shown himself to be a Test-standard bowler as things stand.

So if he hasn't justified his call up do you believe he should be dropped then? you can't have it both ways.

Nope, I don't - and you don't have to have it both ways. A player cannot justify a call-up until he has played a substantial amount; to justify being dropped too a player has to have played a substantial amount, and failed in it.

No call should ever be made on such swift whims.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So why are you commenting so much on them then?

Ha ha ha we've got a comedian on the thread, your funny .

 

[WindieWeathers]

But he's barely played any FC cricket, he's not done much of note in what he's played, and he's done nothing in ODI cricket of note. Where does this equal "deserves a chance at Test cricket". Particularly at the expense of the only proven world class batsman in the team.

Yeah Barath has only played 10 more FC games than Bravo, HUGE difference obviously , and i'm sure Gayle ane Sarwan would have something to say about your notion that Chanders is the only "world class batsman" in the side, that's nonsense imo and he certainly isn't playing like a "world class player" RIGHT NOW.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yeah Barath has only played 10 more FC games than Bravo, HUGE difference obviously , and i'm sure Gayle ane Sarwan would have something to say about your notion that Chanders is the only "world class batsman" in the side, that's nonsense imo and he certainly isn't playing like a "world class player" RIGHT NOW.

You're missing the obvious point that, against pretty much the same opposition, Barath has vastly outperformed Darren Bravo in every single department, except looking like Lara.

 

[WindieWeathers]

There's no way in my book that Aamer has conclusively shown himself to be a Test-standard bowler as things stand.

Then what does he have to do then? turn into Dale Steyn over night? and i'm inclined to ask how are you so familier with Aamer's career when you said this about him and Parnell earlier in this thread?

Until this thread I'd never even heard of them so I obviously can't offer an informed opinion, but based on the fact that almost no bowler is good enough at their age I'd say the answer is very probably no.

Looks fishy to me

Nope, I don't - and you don't have to have it both ways. A player cannot justify a call-up until he has played a substantial amount; to justify being dropped too a player has to have played a substantial amount, and failed in it.

No call should ever be made on such swift whims.

You're not answering the question, he's had his debut and we've seen him play, should he be in the side or not?.

 

[WindieWeathers]

You're missing the obvious point that, against pretty much the same opposition, Barath has vastly outperformed Darren Bravo in every single department, except looking like Lara.

And you're missing the point that Barath's FC record has no relevance to whether Bravo can perform at Test level, Ramdin hits 100's at FC level but is he a test standard batsman? you can keep living in the past if you like, i'd rather embrace the future of WI cricket thanks.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And you're missing the point that Barath's FC record has no relevance to whether Bravo can perform at Test level, Ramdin hits 100's at FC level but is he a test standard batsman? you can keep living in the past if you like, i'd rather embrace the future of WI cricket thanks.

The only time Ramdin has ever truly looked like a good batsman at domestic level is this season.

Anyway, it baffles me that your logic suggests that if Bravo is mediocre in a competition where Ramdin scores hundreds, he can be anything better than mediocre in a competition where Ramdin doesn't score them!

 

[WindieWeathers]

The only time Ramdin has ever truly looked like a good batsman at domestic level is this season.

Anyway, it baffles me that your logic suggests that if Bravo is mediocre in a competition where Ramdin scores hundreds, he can be anything better than mediocre in a competition where Ramdin doesn't score them!

Erm no what i'm saying is FC level and test level are two different ball games, just like Benn's test average IS BETTER than his FC average , so you see Bravo doesn't have to be a genius with T&T to be able to hold his own in the test side.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Benn's test average IS BETTER than his FC average

What?! No it's not!

It's much worse!

Reality check.