Harris vs. Hauritz vs. Swann

[aussie]

Boys boys boys, we could argue long into the nights about who is better but until both players have toured the world a bit more we can't exactly say one is clearly and definitely ahead of the other. Maybe we can revisit this debate in at least a year, or even better, just after the down under Ashes, which you would think would be the perfect battleground for these two spinners.

Personally I'm just enjoying the fact these guys are doing so well when so many people rubbished them.

Some may want to wait that long. But IMO just watching Swann vs SA & Hauritz vs PAK/WI recently, Swann is clearly superior.

Hauritz wouldn't have troubled the SA batsmen like Swann did, but inversely the success Hauritz got againts a troubled PAK team i certainly believe Swann could/would have matched that.

 

[DaRick]

Brad Hogg was very impressive though. Had he played for a different country, would have been quite a good test bowler.

I personally think that Brad Hogg's a funny guy and he was one of Australia's best ODI spin bowlers, but what made him a good ODI bowler arguably led to his undoing in Test cricket (and FC cricket).

Hogg had fairly good control, had plenty of variants and decent to excellent control over all of them: the chinaman, the googly, the topspinner, the flipper and possibly a slider of some sort (don't remember though). He also used them fairly frequently. However, he lacked a big-turning stock delivery and his use of variants was to his detriment in Test cricket because it gave the batsmen more opportunity to pick them. The red ball also hindered him, as aussie said.

 

[DaRick]

iirc there's only about 10 or so leggies who have made a significant impact on Test cricket in terms of volume of wickets, when you consider the proportion of left handers in the population then the fact that there's not yet been a great chinaman bowler isn't really a statistical anomaly.

Hmmm...there's Shane Warne, Mushtaq Ahmed, Bill O'Reilly, Anil Kumble, Chandrasekar, Stuart MacGill, Richie Benaud, Abdul Qadir, Danish Kaneria, Clarie Grimmett, Subhash Gupte, Intikhab (PAK's current coach) and Sonny Ramadhin (although some consider him an 'off-spinner'). Arthur Mailey took around 100 wickets, too. There are also some who looked promising for a bit (Jenner, Ramnarine) but for some reason never got extended runs in the side.

Many on this forum consider Murali to be a leg spinner, but I don't.

Given that lefties make up around 10% of the population, you'd think that there'd be at least one high-quality chinaman bowler to have played Test cricket. But that's not the case, partially because their stock ball turns into right-handers. There is the odd case (like Dave Mohammed) who could've been useful, but they're not as common as they should be.

I'd be interested to know who the most successful chinaman bowlers have been in the history of Tests. Wouldn't suprise me if Bevan and Katich were up there.

Garfield Sobers and Johnny Wardle have each taken 100+ Test wickets, but they barely count. Bevan and Katich have taken 20-30 Test wickets. The most prolific one I could find was Paul Adams.

 

[Shri]

Murali Kartik?

 

[DaRick]

murali kartik?

Nah, he was a slow left armer.

 

[Migara]

Have to disagree slightly since in the past i've heard a few people say (on this site poster Vic_orthodox for example) that Hogg's variations where a lot harder to pick (specifically the wrong'un) with the white ball, because the contrast between the colours of the seam and the ball aren't as distinctive as with the red ball, so batsmen found him a lot easier to pick in FC cricket.

Watching him bowl in tests especially after Warne retired i believe their was alot of truth to that.

That may be true, but with proper exposure, and on spinning wickets his chinaman alone would have created problems. If SAF / ENG / NZ / WI had him, would have played every single match for these sides. And we know Australia is a damn difficult place to bowl spin.

 

[Migara]

The most prolific one I could find was Paul Adams.

Adams also spun the ball away from the RHB as his stock ball. his wrist spun ball was the change up ball. I would consider Hogg to be the most impressive chinaman bowler of late, at least ODIs considered.

 

[DaRick]

Adams also spun the ball away from the RHB as his stock ball. his wrist spun ball was the change up ball. I would consider Hogg to be the most impressive chinaman bowler of late, at least ODIs considered.

Yeah, Hogg would comfortably be the best ever ODI chinaman.

 

[Matt79]

Adams also spun the ball away from the RHB as his stock ball. his wrist spun ball was the change up ball. I would consider Hogg to be the most impressive chinaman bowler of late, at least ODIs considered.

WTF????

 

[DaRick]

He said ODI's.

 

[marc71178]

That may be true, but with proper exposure, and on spinning wickets his chinaman alone would have created problems. If SAF / ENG / NZ / WI had him, would have played every single match for these sides. And we know Australia is a damn difficult place to bowl spin.

Erm no, he wouldn't have done for England, as he quite frankly wasn't a good first class bowler. His one season in county cricket he took 17 wickets @ 53.11 in 12 games.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Many on this forum consider Murali to be a leg spinner, but I don't.

Never heard that before. A lot of folk think of him as a wrist spinner as opposed to a finger spinner, but his stock delivery has always been the (sharply spun) off-break.

 

[VFE]

Swann then Harris

Hauritz is not even in the best 3 spinners in Aus

Bearing in mind the spin stocks in Aus are of lower quality than my local Primary School thats a pretty epic dis.

Hauritz has actually being bowling ok but is flattered by bowling to 2 of the worst Countries for players of spin currently in WIs and Pakistan.

Swann hands down and considering he is an offie I find his bowling hugely impressive.

 

[VFE]

Some may want to wait that long. But IMO just watching Swann vs SA & Hauritz vs PAK/WI recently, Swann is clearly superior.

Hauritz wouldn't have troubled the SA batsmen like Swann did, but inversely the success Hauritz got againts a troubled PAK team i certainly believe Swann could/would have matched that.

Panesar made his reputation bowling to Pakistan and WIs. They simply are not good players of spin and this should be born in mind when looking at Hauritz's performances.

 

[NZTailender]

Best person. Have never liked you more

 

[Burgey]

Yeah bvut what social's post implied was that Swann was yet to face any top-class batsman whereas he's actually faced nearly all of the premier batsmen in world cricket, except for Pietersen

KP barely fits that bill these days tbf

 

[aussie]

Panesar made his reputation bowling to Pakistan and WIs. They simply are not good players of spin and this should be born in mind when looking at Hauritz's performances.

Indeed.

 

[DaRick]

Never heard that before. A lot of folk think of him as a wrist spinner as opposed to a finger spinner, but his stock delivery has always been the (sharply spun) off-break.

Ah yes. I often confuse wrist spinners and leg spinners, for they're often the same thing.

 

[Migara]

Erm no, he wouldn't have done for England, as he quite frankly wasn't a good first class bowler. His one season in county cricket he took 17 wickets @ 53.11 in 12 games.

Wasn't that long before he became a real force in ODIs? Hogg of 2000-2003 was very good. As he started his bowling career late, he could have played few more years, perhaps until about 39-40. He is a superfit cricketer, and by looking at the bowlers Aus tried since Warne and McGrath, Hogg is easily the best. and no one has seen how he would develop if he played on spinning wickets. Tour to SL / IND / PAK with him would have shown how good he is than bowling on roads and seaming pitches

 

[Migara]

KP barely fits that bill these days tbf

I cant remember Sangakkara, Jayawardane and Samaraweera batting against him in test matches. A damn solid middle order any spinner would face. All these players are better accomplished in playing spin than KP. Cannot remeber him coming across Sehwag as well.