Harris vs. Hauritz vs. Swann

[Ikki]

Wat.

What? They've done pretty well against India and Sri Lanka.

 

[Top_Cat]

What? They've done pretty well against India and Sri Lanka.

Who's 'they'? Pakistan's only player against decent spin is MoYo. Before that, I dunno, Salim Malik maybe. Generally are bunnies unless playing on a runway.

 

[Ikki]

Where did I say that? Swann bowled us to victory twice.

He was turd at Cardiff and then averaged 31 for the rest of the series. But I couldn't care less what he averaged as in both of the matches we won he did what a spinner is meant to do in the fourth innings, bowled his side to victory.

He was turd in Cardiff and Leeds. And to say his 4/87 won you the match at Lords is a stretch. It was the pace attack that pretty much settled the match after our first innings collapse.

 

[GIMH]

He was turd in Cardiff and Leeds. And to say his 4/87 won you the match at Lords is a stretch. It was the pace attack that pretty much settled the match after our first innings collapse.

He was by no means our worst bowler at Leeds and it wasn't suitable for spin at all (hence the wise call to leave Hauritz out by your lot). But again, as I said, hauritz never had to deal with his batsmen only giving him 100 to play with, it's why I don't like using stats for bowlers.

And alright, maybe I'm going a bit far saying he won us the match at Lord's, but my point is he did exactly what we needed him to there.

 

[Ikki]

Who's 'they'? Pakistan's only player against decent spin is MoYo. Before that, I dunno, Salim Malik maybe. Generally are bunnies unless playing on a runway.

Don't look like Bunnies to me.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

 

[Ikki]

He was by no means our worst bowler at Leeds and it wasn't suitable for spin at all (hence the wise call to leave Hauritz out by your lot). But again, as I said, hauritz never had to deal with his batsmen only giving him 100 to play with, it's why I don't like using stats for bowlers.

And alright, maybe I'm going a bit far saying he won us the match at Lord's, but my point is he did exactly what we needed him to there.

Which is the perfect statement for Hauritz also. He does exactly what we need him to do. He may pick up less overall wickets than Swann and generally not be as good in a "match-winner" sense, but he'll take a decent amount of wickets, not get obliterated and at times get handy wickets.

 

[Top_Cat]

Don't look like Bunnies to me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Come on, you know that says nothing about Pakistan's foibles again spin. Half-decent spinners + little bit in the deck = Pakistan collapse. All the big knocks by Younis, etc. were played on roads which negated any type of bowler.

Mind you, of late, bat + ball = Pakistan collapse. Still, their rep against spin ain't great and it's not without reason.

 

[Ikki]

Come on, you know that says nothing about Pakistan's foibles again spin.

I don't follow. I said they're generally decent players of spin. They have a very new team and who knows how they'll turn about but I am not going to call them poor players of spin until they have more Tests under their belts. But in general, they've been pretty decent. I think calling them bunnies is over the top. I am not intimate with their batsmen but I've always thought they were pretty decent and the record shows they're pretty good.

 

[DaRick]

Come on, you know that says nothing about Pakistan's foibles again spin. Half-decent spinners + little bit in the deck = Pakistan collapse. All the big knocks by Younis, etc. were played on roads which negated any type of bowler.

Mind you, of late, bat + ball = Pakistan collapse. Still, their rep against spin ain't great and it's not without reason.

I always thought that they had greater problems against wristspin than offspin, TBH.

 

[Uppercut]

Don't look like Bunnies to me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

That's not great analysis. I prefer this: Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com.

The overall averages against spinners in the 2000s for each team are:

India: 44.07
Sri Lanka: 41.95
Australia: 41.88
Pakistan: 37.60
South Africa: 37.08
England: 34.99
New Zealand: 34.37
West Indies: 32.66
Bangladesh: 19.92

I'm going to run with this and get the overall averages against pacers.

Australia: 43.87 (holy fudge)
South Africa: 38.22
India: 35.83
Sri Lanka: 34.83
England: 34.38
Pakistan: 33.43
New Zealand: 29.99
West Indies: 28.43
Bangladesh: 20.85

Pakistan look like they've been pretty okay against spin over the years, and I can't say I've noticed what T_C is referring to. They do have a funny thing against LAO bowlers though. Also, the current lot are mainly just bad batsmen in general.

 

[Prince EWS]

That's not great analysis. I prefer this: Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com.

The overall averages against spinners in the 2000s for each team are:

India: 44.07
Sri Lanka: 41.95
Australia: 41.88
Pakistan: 37.60
South Africa: 37.08
England: 34.99
New Zealand: 34.37
West Indies: 32.66
Bangladesh: 19.92

I'm going to run with this and get the overall averages against pacers.

Australia: 43.87 (holy fudge)
South Africa: 38.22
India: 35.83
Sri Lanka: 34.83
England: 34.38
Pakistan: 33.43
New Zealand: 29.99
West Indies: 28.43
Bangladesh: 20.85

Pakistan look like they've been pretty okay against spin over the years, and I can't say I've noticed what T_C is referring to. They do have a funny thing against LAO bowlers though. Also, the current lot are mainly just bad batsmen in general.

I think it'd be interesting to have a look at that in away games only (in fact I was just about to do that before you made that post). Including home games runs the risk of having the home conditions play a part in the analysis.

 

[Uppercut]

Bollocks no, that's home games. One second.

Pakistan average 36.76 against spin away. India average 42.89, Australia 36.61.

 

[GIMH]

Which is the perfect statement for Hauritz also. He does exactly what we need him to do. He may pick up less overall wickets than Swann and generally not be as good in a "match-winner" sense, but he'll take a decent amount of wickets, not get obliterated and at times get handy wickets.

I'll take that as you accepting the truth and sleep happy tonight

 

[Jono]

Lol, Pakistanis are good at playing spin because they're in a country next to India and Sri Lanka? Otherwise what other reasoning is there?

I'm sure Iqbal and Farhat are awesome against spin

I'm not saying that Hauritz didn't bowl well to get them, but don't for a second suggest that Hauritz bowled to a tougher batting line-up than Swann did in each temas' most recent series.

 

[Ikki]

Or because they tend to score a lot of runs against teams with good spinners...just a thought.

 

[Jono]

Who is they? Inzamam Ul Haq? Younis Khan?

Not this batting line-up.

 

[Ikki]

Who is they? Inzamam Ul Haq? Younis Khan?

Not this batting line-up.

I think you missed my point. When I made that statement I meant generally they are good players of spin; and have been certainly in the 00s. Whether they continue that trend is yet to be seen but why pretend as if I said it purely because they're all brown fellows.

 

[social]

Anyone that says with certainty that Swann OR Hauritz will end up with very good test records is kidding themselves

They are both traditional offies and anyone from A-grade up will be licking their lips at the chance of facing them

However, as I have said before, for a "baby" who was not expected to do anything, Hauritz is doing well whilst Swann is undoubtedly the most overrated player in the world at present (nice performance in the last test when the ball was spinning square) and yet they have similar records

I predict career averages of approx 35 for both with the difference being that Hauritz will be shown the door as soon as any wrist spinner with any ability puts his hand up

 

[aussie]

Watching Hauritz this summer. I would say his bowling againts the West Indies in Adealaide & Perth is best way to gauage his progress. Since he performances againts a woeful PAK batting with all their internal issues is a bit like Ravi Bopara slamming hundreds againts a woeful WI before the Ashes.

Not convinced that Hauritz can really spin out a solid batting side on a 5th day.

 

[GIMH]

Anyone that says with certainty that Swann OR Hauritz will end up with very good test records is kidding themselves

They are both traditional offies and anyone from A-grade up will be licking their lips at the chance of facing them

However, as I have said before, for a "baby" who was not expected to do anything, Hauritz is doing well whilst Swann is undoubtedly the most overrated player in the world at present (nice performance in the last test when the ball was spinning square) and yet they have similar records

I predict career averages of approx 35 for both with the difference being that Hauritz will be shown the door as soon as any wrist spinner with any ability puts his hand up

Yeah, thank god that in his career so far Swanneh has got to bowl to dross like Tendulkar, Chanderpaul, Ponting, Smith & Kallis.