Ireland For Test Status?

[four_or_six]

If anyone asked me what nationality I was, I'd say English. I would only use British on official forms.

 

[Furball]

English just isn't a nationality, AFAIC. Obviously, some people define their own nationalities (there are some who consider themselves Yorkshire-ian as their nationality, however silly those outside the county may consider this).

British is the nationality of all those who are connected to England, Wales and Scotland. I feel that to deny one's Britishness is to basically renounce something which no-one has any legit reason to renounce. I don't see why anyone would want to be English (or Welsh) and not British. Makes no sense to me.

Because there's no such thing as a British nation. It's a political union of nations.

 

[GIMH]

English just isn't a nationality, AFAIC. Obviously, some people define their own nationalities (there are some who consider themselves Yorkshire-ian as their nationality, however silly those outside the county may consider this).

British is the nationality of all those who are connected to England, Wales and Scotland. I feel that to deny one's Britishness is to basically renounce something which no-one has any legit reason to renounce. I don't see why anyone would want to be English (or Welsh) and not British. Makes no sense to me.

The 'England isn't a country' argument has never washed with me (and never will) so as far as I am concerned it is a nationality, and that is my nationality

 

[Richard]

Yeah but isn't that the point? It's not about what you think on this one.

Well, what I think is what I think; what others think is what they think. As I said earlier, if people wish to consider "English" (or Welsh, or Scottish) as their nationality, they can do so. I don't and won't, however, because the nationality of someone is British in my book. Whether you're English, Welsh or Scottish is merely a subdivision of that, and totally different to whether someone is (say) French, German or Polish.

Because there's no such thing as a British nation. It's a political union of nations.

There are a great many ways the matter can be interpreted. All I'd say is that you can be English (or Welsh, or Scottish, or indeed Irish) and proud of it without trying to renounce Britain.

 

[GIMH]

I'm not renouncing those nations, I simply have zero connection with them

 

[Richard]

By being English, you have every connection with the nation\country\whatever of Britain. Being British doesn't mean being in equal parts English, Welsh and Scottish, all it means is being one of them.

 

[NUFAN]

*YAWN*

Yes I don't need to read this thread, but it's actually (or was) an interesting one and each day I hope to read something actually about the team and there chances.

It's obvious ICC would allow to play as a Test Country if they met the criteria considering they are considered a country in ODI terms.

 

[Richard]

Yes it is. But the point is they shouldn't. Same applies to Scotland. It's thus inevitable that conversation will centre around not just the calibre of players available to the ICC-defined team, but the wisdom behind that team being defined as one.

Also there will inevitably be fair impact on Ireland's prospects of becoming a Test team from "England nicking their players", which as far as those who believe England-and-Wales, Scotland and Ireland should all play cricket under one banner are concerned is natural and the only viable way of going about things.

 

[GIMH]

By being English, you have every connection with the nation\country\whatever of Britain. Being British doesn't mean being in equal parts English, Welsh and Scottish, all it means is being one of them.

No I don't

 

[Oli Norwell]

Firstly I think it's safe to say that whilst the likes of Eoin Morgan are allowed to jump ship and play for England once they've reached a certain level the chances of Ireland getting test status are close to zero. To me it just seems like madness. So they need to somehow get Joyce, Morgan and any promising youngsters to return to playing just for Ireland. There is a precedent with Gavin Hamilton returning to play for Scotland after playing a test for England.

Then on top of that they need to pull whatever strings/favours they can to get the ICC to cut test cricket into 2 leagues. The top six countries, and the bottom six countries (the worst 4 test teams and say Ireland and Holland). With the bottom six playing first class cricket, not test match cricket. One up one down every two years, round robin setup. That would end any meaningless test cricket.

Then with the required strings pulled Ireland could concentrate on dominating this second tier of 'test' cricket. With the aim to eventually get promoted to that top bracket. The money generated from this 'surge' of effort would be ploughed back into grass roots cricket in Ireland with the hope of getting some good youngsters in there.

Chances of this scenario happening in 20 years..... probably zero if they keep losing star players, probably about 25% likely if they can somehow keep their best players.

 

[Furball]

There's definitely an issue that needs sorting out. It's not right that England can take Morgan a matter of weeks after he's played ODIs for Ireland, but Joyce has to wait 4 years to requalify for Ireland after playing for England.

 

[Oli Norwell]

There's definitely an issue that needs sorting out. It's not right that England can take Morgan a matter of weeks after he's played ODIs for Ireland, but Joyce has to wait 4 years to requalify for Ireland after playing for England.

Exactly. I don't see the point of the ICC putting all this money into development of the game around the world when there is nothing stopping this scenario happening over and over again.

Take Dirk Nannes as another example. If he was only playing for Holland then that would strengthen them no end, but given half a sniff he was in the Australian squad.

It's hard to blame Morgan, I mean he's a professional sportsman and every sportsman wants to reach the top, it's what they work for. But how loyal is it to quit playing for Ireland as soon as England come for you.

 

[Richard]

No I don't

Presuming you're replying to the first sentence... everyone who's English is British. England is part of Britain. Surely you're not going to tell me you consider otherwise there?

Saying you're English not British is like saying you play for Liverpool not in the Premiership. Or saying you have a pistol not a gun. Or saying you have a green apple not an apple. Etc. etc.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Presuming you're replying to the first sentence... everyone who's English is British. England is part of Britain. Surely you're not going to tell me you consider otherwise there?

Saying you're English not British is like saying you play for Liverpool not in the Premiership. Or saying you have a pistol not a gun. Or saying you have a green apple not an apple. Etc. etc.

would have thought the most obvious analogy was "you're Lancastrian not English" tbh...

 

[Richard]

Then on top of that they need to pull whatever strings/favours they can to get the ICC to cut test cricket into 2 leagues.

Can't see how anyone thinks this is a good idea. Cricket has never worked this way, and should never do so IMO. No side has ever yet lost Test status (it's a disgrace that Zimbabwe haven't, obviously, but that's the way it is). There is no way anyone should promote a system which means that Test status is lost and gained on a constant on-off basis.

 

[Richard]

would have thought the most obvious analogy was "you're Lancastrian not English" tbh...

That'd do as well.

Or "you're Liverpudlian not Lancastrian". "You're of Smith Street, not <insert suburb of Liverpool>". Can take it down a long way.

 

[GIMH]

Presuming you're replying to the first sentence... everyone who's English is British. England is part of Britain. Surely you're not going to tell me you consider otherwise there?

Saying you're English not British is like saying you play for Liverpool not in the Premiership. Or saying you have a pistol not a gun. Or saying you have a green apple not an apple. Etc. etc.

would have thought the most obvious analogy was "you're Lancastrian not English" tbh...

That'd do as well.

Or "you're Liverpudlian not Lancastrian". "You're of Smith Street, not <insert suburb of Liverpool>". Can take it down a long way.

Misread your post, but meh, might as well label me 'European' then, it's not actually something that means much to me but I don't think of myself as British whatsoever. I don't care what you technically wish to label me, that's just the way it is.

PS, I'm neither Lancastrian nor Liverpudlian, so behave you two . But it's funny you should say that, as it is pretty well-known that Liverpudlians tend to say, "scouse not English."

But I'm well aware that this discussion is boring the arse of people so I shall leave it there.

 

[Richard]

All I'm saying is that saying "being British means nothing much to me while being English does" makes perfect sense. So does saying "to me, my nationality feels English rather than British". But saying "I'm English not British" doesn't really make any sense at all.