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*Official* England in South Africa

FBU

International Debutant
I guess Plunkett is in the Test squad and Mahmood in the ODI from their figures last season

F/c
371.1 overs 41 wickets at 34.00 - Mahmood
409.3 overs 60 wickets at 23.35 - Plunkett

l/o
122.2 overs 24 wickets at 24.33 - Mahmood
95.5 overs 14 wickets at 39.07 - Plunkett
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
a couple of blunders but only halfway through the series when England are 0-2 down, thats when the English selectors usually realize.
Harmison should have been picked in the test side..Plunkett choice is a bit strange. It doesnt matter how many wickets he picks up in the domestic season...I doubt he will be more of a threat than Harmison on South African pitches. If this was a home series I could still understand, but Plunkett's overseas credentials are questionable at best and on South African wickets, I would rather pick a bowler like Harmison with the extra yard of pace and bounce. That would balance a bowling attack already comprising of Anderson, Broad and Onions.

Another blunder is the exclusion of Owais Shah from the ODI side. I mean thats laughable..I mean I could understand this if this was Australia, where players like Martin Love, Brad Hodge know that even if they score a 200, they will probably get dropped once the injured batsman they were replacing would be fit..But this is England who are not known to produce world class ODI players.. Owais is a decent ODI player who scores from time to time, who had just scored a brilliant match winning 98 against the same bowling attack he is going to face in 2 months, under the same conditions he is going ot face and they have to go and drop him...Ridiculous!

Cook's selection is fine but they should have picked another specialist test opener.

My test team

Straus
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood
Trott
Prior
Broad
Onions
Swann
Anderson
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
So you don't think based on what you have seen of Wright ODIs, that those FC performances is more of indictment of our FC system - rather than any potential ability Wright has currently or wi ever have to be considered a test quality prospect?.

His selection is just as dumb as when Rikki Clarke was chosen in 2003/04 in the test side. That selection panel needs revamping immediately.
How the **** else are you meant to analyse potential players other than their domestic form?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Consistent underachievement with the bat combined with terrible running and fielding - makes sense to me.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Tests:

Strauss (c)
Cook
Bell
Trott
KP
Colly
Prior
Davies
Wright
Broad
Swann
Rashid
Anderson
Onions
Plunkett
Sidebum


Wright? Plunkett? Seriously?

And no reserve opener in case Cook can't cut it?

Pleased about the lack of Harmison, though.

ODIs

Strauss
Cook
Denly
Trott
KP
Morgan
Colly
Prior
Rashid
Wright
Broad
Bresnan
Saj Mahmood
Swann
Onions
Anderson


EDIT: missed Onions in the ODI squad.

Saj Mahmood? Cook for ODIs? Please, no...
Would like to see (tests):

Strauss
Cook
Trott
KP
Collingwood
Bell (where he can do the least damage)
Prior
Broad
Swann
Onions
Anderson

ODIs:

Strauss
Denly
KP
Trott
Collingwood
Morgan
Prior
Broad (Bresnan if he bowls dross)
Swann
Onions
Anderson

ODI bowling severely lacking economy rate there but could get some wickets if the bombs go off..
 

shivfan

Banned
Consistent underachievement with the bat combined with terrible running and fielding - makes sense to me.
Even though Shah was the second best run accumulator for England at the CT?

As said above, it would make sense of the players in the squad were clearly better ODI players than Owais, but they're not.

Denly had an appalling run with the bat in the CT, and when has Cook ever done anything significant in ODIs? I think we can safely predict that England will definitely lose the ODI series to South Africa....
 

analyst

U19 12th Man
Even though Shah was the second best run accumulator for England at the CT?

As said above, it would make sense of the players in the squad were clearly better ODI players than Owais, but they're not.

Denly had an appalling run with the bat in the CT, and when has Cook ever done anything significant in ODIs? I think we can safely predict that England will definitely lose the ODI series to South Africa....
You must be extremely thick skinned, because you have ignored not just one poster but two or three posters echoing the same message which is, that the selectors must have picked those players based on domestic statistics which is how the great Owais Shah incidentally got reselected for England. It was not his great record for England that got him selected :laugh:
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Even though Shah was the second best run accumulator for England at the CT?

As said above, it would make sense of the players in the squad were clearly better ODI players than Owais, but they're not.

Denly had an appalling run with the bat in the CT, and when has Cook ever done anything significant in ODIs? I think we can safely predict that England will definitely lose the ODI series to South Africa....
There comes a point though where you can't ignore atrocious fielding and running. It's not as if he's shown much potential for improvement in those areas either.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Even though Shah was the second best run accumulator for England at the CT?
Try 3rd, and he wouldn't have even gone to the CT if the team hadn't been selected before that series.

As said above, it would make sense of the players in the squad were clearly better ODI players than Owais, but they're not.
So which of the middle order batsmen aren't better than him (and since you used players that includes his terrible fielding and running to further lower his worth

Denly had an appalling run with the bat in the CT, and when has Cook ever done anything significant in ODIs? I think we can safely predict that England will definitely lose the ODI series to South Africa....
I expect England to lose as well as they're not as good as SA, but Cook's domestic form suggests he's improved in one day cricket, so in effect his past "failings" (where interestingly his average of 30.52 doesn't compare too badly to Shah's 30.56) are being discounted.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Consistent underachievement with the bat combined with terrible running and fielding - makes sense to me.
Shah had a terrible series against Australia, but he wasn't alone in underperforming with the bat in that series and had a decent Champions Trophy, with a crucial match winning knock against South Africa.

Rightly or wrongly, he's been a fixture in the ODI side since the World Cup, and no England batsman in that period has scored more runs than Shah. He's not been outstanding by any stretch of the imagination, but when you look at some of the players in the squad, to axe a player who's actually had a measure of success in the last 2 years is bizzare to say the least.
 

analyst

U19 12th Man
Shah had a terrible series against Australia, but he wasn't alone in underperforming with the bat in that series and had a decent Champions Trophy, with a crucial match winning knock against South Africa.

Rightly or wrongly, he's been a fixture in the ODI side since the World Cup, and no England batsman in that period has scored more runs than Shah. He's not been outstanding by any stretch of the imagination, but when you look at some of the players in the squad, to axe a player who's actually had a measure of success in the last 2 years is bizzare to say the least.
Hardly, With the World Cup round the corner, you would rather pick a core of young players to work with and bring Owais Shah back if they should fail rather than jump to the youngsters if he fails all the way through. Good plan by England to drop him before so that they can develop batsmen and a team rather than just have one or two players especially in the absence of Pietersen, they need all the help they can get. I don't think Shah will miss anything if he is really that good, he will produce in county cricket and win his place back.
 

ozone

First Class Debutant
Should probably be pointed out that Owais Shah is probably the second best player of spin in the England setup, and as the next world cup is being held in the sub-continent, he will almost certainly be in contention again by the time that comes round.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
How the **** else are you meant to analyse potential players other than their domestic form?
Domestic form is suggested best guide for judging players for international cricket yes. But it is clear our domestic system english list A & some parts of FC cricket is very poor -thus not all excellent doemstic performanes - is clear guide to how a player will go in international cricket.

The fact that Luke Wright has shockingly averaged 52 in Division 1 off all is a clear indicator that the standard of bowling in some area's may be getting just as bad as Division 2.

Further proof of this that James Franklin (down at the bottom) has also averaged 50 this domestic season. Surely you are not going to tell me that would make him a genuiene test quality option in that role for NZ?.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Try 3rd, and he wouldn't have even gone to the CT if the team hadn't been selected before that series.
Nope. Bopara place was in more jeopardy than him for the likely replacement in Trott.


So which of the middle order batsmen aren't better than him (and since you used players that includes his terrible fielding and running to further lower his worth.
This can't be a serious question.


I expect England to lose as well as they're not as good as SA, but Cook's domestic form suggests he's improved in one day cricket, so in effect his past "failings" (where interestingly his average of 30.52 doesn't compare too badly to Shah's 30.56) are being discounted.
:wacko:. Improve where?. Another classic case poor judgement of domestic stats. Cook has absolutely no skills to be a good ODI player - that i fact. Him scoring that 100 in 60 odd balls during the season shows how poor the bowling was on that day rather than any improvement in Cook's ODI batting.

Swann before the T20 WC had scored a smoking 90 off 50odd balls opening that batting. Should he have been considered as a creditable opening option for international cricket based on that?. Stop sleeping...
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Domestic form is suggested best guide for judging players for international cricket yes. But it is clear our domestic system english list A & some parts of FC cricket is very poor -thus not all excellent doemstic performanes - is clear guide to how a player will go in international cricket.

The fact that Luke Wright has shockingly averaged 52 in Division 1 off all is a clear indicator that the standard of bowling in some area's may be getting just as bad as Division 2.
You can't dismiss Wright's domestic season like that - he got 2 100's and 3 50's in 8 games - one 100 and a fifty were against Durham, an outstanding domestic side on any yardstick, and his other ton was against Hants and the 50's Notts and Warwicks - no Worcester bashing or filling his boots on that strip of asphalt at Taunton
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Nope. Bopara place was in more jeopardy than him for the likely replacement in Trott.




This can't be a serious question.




:wacko:. Improve where?. Another classic case poor judgement of domestic stats. Cook has absolutely no skills to be a good ODI player - that i fact. Him scoring that 100 in 60 odd balls during the season shows how poor the bowling was on that day rather than any improvement in Cook's ODI batting.

Swann before the T20 WC had scored a smoking 90 off 50odd balls opening that batting. Should he have been considered as a creditable opening option for international cricket based on that?. Stop sleeping...
You obviously didn't see any of Cook's domestic innings, stop making assumptions. Cook changed his game up in ODs quite a bit at the backend of the summer.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
The fact that Luke Wright has shockingly averaged 52 in Division 1 off all is a clear indicator that the standard of bowling in some area's may be getting just as bad as Division 2.
Maybe so. How have other England qualified batsmen done in Division 1?
 

Flem274*

123/5
Domestic form is suggested best guide for judging players for international cricket yes. But it is clear our domestic system english list A & some parts of FC cricket is very poor -thus not all excellent doemstic performanes - is clear guide to how a player will go in international cricket.

The fact that Luke Wright has shockingly averaged 52 in Division 1 off all is a clear indicator that the standard of bowling in some area's may be getting just as bad as Division 2.

Further proof of this that James Franklin (down at the bottom) has also averaged 50 this domestic season. Surely you are not going to tell me that would make him a genuiene test quality option in that role for NZ?.
Its under serious consideration, and he thinks he's a batsman these days.

Even if the domestic competition sucks, the cream will still rise to the top. I don't rate Wright, but he had a good season and deserves to be recognised for it (though not as far as a flight to SA for tests).
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
Struggling to fathom why people are that surprised with Wright's selection. Even though he's not ready for test cricket, ODI performances tend to nudge the selectors into giving guys a go in the other format.

Same with Denly really.
 

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