Should Brett Lee be selected for the Ashes?

[scorpiogal]

Lawson's talking bollocks. It's beyond unfair to say that Lee hasn't been in form for the past 18 months going on 2 years. The rest of the world know better. We're in June. Just a year ago Lee was in fantastic form over here in the Windies. Lawson. What an idiot.

 

[Top_Cat]

Aaahh...but how do we know that Clark'll be match-fit in time for the Tests? As Lawson is suggesting that Lee isn't yet match-fit and he at least has 20/20 overs under his belt, little as that may be, it's still more than Clark.

As I said, I don't think either of them should be in the first Test side unless they absolutely bowl the house down in the warm-ups.

 

[scorpiogal]

As I said, I don't think either of them should be in the first Test side unless they absolutely bowl the house down in the warm-ups.

And....I don't think the selectors will be of the same opinion. They will include one of them or might even spring a surprise and choose both.

 

[Top_Cat]

And....I don't think the selectors will be of the same opinion. They will include one of them or might even spring a surprise and choose both.

Yeah, been saying the exact same for a while now. Lee is clearly being primed to start in the first Test XI and I can't see him taking the old ball behind Siddle and Johnson. Strongly suspect the move will be disastrous.

I know everyone goes all gooey, replete with man-crushes when watching Lee train a bicep but I'm hoping the Aussie selectors will be able to see past that. They're obviously closer to the set-up so they probably know something we all don't, though. That said, one thing Lee is very, very good at is self-promotion so you just know he's in the ears of anyone who'll listen about how well he's bowling, how fit he feels, etc. In fairness, that would be hard to resist, especially when you consider just how well Lee bowled before the WI series. And, again in fairness, he's still bowling awfully quickly.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah, been saying the exact same for a while now. Lee is clearly being primed to start in the first Test XI and I can't see him taking the old ball behind Siddle and Johnson. Strongly suspect the move will be disastrous.

I agree, wouldn't want to see it myself unless he has a particularly strong build up.

 

[Uppercut]

As I said, I don't think either of them should be in the first Test side unless they absolutely bowl the house down in the warm-ups.

I'd probably pick both if they proved their fitness- what would your side be then? Hauritz and McDonald on first change?

 

[inbox24]

I guess there probably is a case for playing in the in form guys first, so a bowling attack of:

Johnson
Siddle
Hilfenhaus

which is a good combination, because you have a right arm fast, left arm fast and a right arm swing bowler. Then, if they fail, then you can go on to pick the veterans Lee and Clark (although more lee-way for Clark because his bowling is more suited to English conditions).

This way would be a win-win situation because then whilst the in form guys are playing, Lee and Clark can get themselves into some sort of match fitness with a couple of FC fixtures between the first few tests.

 

[social]

The T20s didnt tell us anything we didnt know about Lee already - he's not match fit and he's generally ineffective in England

Given that the the first test is being played on a supposedly slowish Cardiff track, logic demands that he shouldn't be anywhere near the x1

But we are talking about the same fwit selectors that have hashed up virtually everything they've come in contact with over the past few years so, unfortunately, Lee will play and a better bowler will be left to cool his heels

 

[scorpiogal]

I guess there probably is a case for playing in the in form guys first, so a bowling attack of:

Johnson
Siddle
Hilfenhaus

which is a good combination, because you have a right arm fast, left arm fast and a right arm swing bowler. Then, if they fail, then you can go on to pick the veterans Lee and Clark (although more lee-way for Clark because his bowling is more suited to English conditions).

This way would be a win-win situation because then whilst the in form guys are playing, Lee and Clark can get themselves into some sort of match fitness with a couple of FC fixtures between the first few tests.

An another thing....Siddle's just returned from injury as well...I think I've posted this earlier but since we're on the topic of match-fitness....how do we know Siddle's match-fit?

See...people can't use match-fitness for just those two when quite a few are returning from lay-offs....it'll apply to Lee, Clark, Siddle and the walking injury that is Watson.

 

[social]

An another thing....Siddle's just returned from injury as well...I think I've posted this earlier but since we're on the topic of match-fitness....how do we know Siddle's match-fit?

See...people can't use match-fitness for just those two when quite a few are returning from lay-offs....it'll apply to Lee, Clark, Siddle and the walking injury that is Watson.

Ok, fit or not, history shows us that Lee just isnt one terribly effective in England

Therefore, he shouldnt play because potentially we have far better options

Glad we cleared that up

 

[scorpiogal]

Ok, fit or not, history shows us that Lee just isnt one terribly effective in England

Therefore, he shouldnt play because potentially we have far better options

Glad we cleared that up

If only the selectors shared your views.....seems their opinions of the the 'far better options' and your opinion are worlds apart.

 

[Top_Cat]

I'd probably pick both if they proved their fitness- what would your side be then? Hauritz and McDonald on first change?

Hilf at first change if not Clark with Hauritz or McDonald to shore up the 4/th/5th bowling spot (don't think we'll see much bowling from Clarke this series). Don't get the Hilf hate, myself. Once he figures out why he tends to drop short fairly regularly (if he hasn't already), reckon he'll be lethal. He reminds me very strongly of Terry Alderman.

 

[Uppercut]

Hilf at first change if not Clark with Hauritz or McDonald to shore up the 4/th/5th bowling spot (don't think we'll see much bowling from Clarke this series). Don't get the Hilf hate, myself. Once he figures out why he tends to drop short fairly regularly (if he hasn't already), reckon he'll be lethal. He reminds me very strongly of Terry Alderman.

It's not hate- it's just recognition of the fact that he was extremely ineffective in the most perfect conditions imaginable in South Africa. The team's success painted over his failings a little, but seven wickets in three tests @ 52 is very, very poor considering how that series went. Clark and Lee may have to prove they can still do it, but Hilfenhaus really has to prove he could ever do it in the first place.

England will be laughing if Australia drop Lee and Clark for Hilfenhaus and McDonald for the first test.

 

[scorpiogal]

It's not hate- it's just recognition of the fact that he was extremely ineffective in the most perfect conditions imaginable in South Africa. The team's success painted over his failings a little, but seven wickets in three tests @ 52 is very, very poor considering how that series went. Clark and Lee may have to prove they can still do it, but Hilfenhaus really has to prove he could ever do it in the first place.

England will be laughing if Australia drop Lee and Clark for Hilfenhaus and McDonald for the first test.

Agreed. Don't think Hilfenhaus has done enough to be chosen ahead of Lee/Clark.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's not hate- it's just recognition of the fact that he was extremely ineffective in the most perfect conditions imaginable in South Africa. The team's success painted over his failings a little, but seven wickets in three tests @ 52 is very, very poor considering how that series went. Clark and Lee may have to prove they can still do it, but Hilfenhaus really has to prove he could ever do it in the first place.

England will be laughing if Australia drop Lee and Clark for Hilfenhaus and McDonald for the first test.

Disagree, I think the English batsmen would prefer to see Lee on the team sheet than not. Clark is a higher percentage pick but considering the lack of overs with both of them, either is a risk. Maybe going a bit far to say not to pick either in retrospect but there's no way I'd pick both and if I had to choose, Clark.

Anyway, it's moot. He's in the starting XI. Guaranteed. And I reckon he's going to go the journey.

As for Hilf, it's more of a gut feeling. Not disputing he didn't bowl well in South Africa but I got the impression he's not far away.

 

[andyc]

Ok, fit or not, history shows us that Lee just isnt one terribly effective in England

Therefore, he shouldnt play because potentially we have far better options

Glad we cleared that up

To be fair, if you're going to use rationale, there was no point taking Ponting on the last tour of India, or Warne in 2004. You shouldn't be leaving a player out just because he's toured there before and hasn't really performed.

 

[scorpiogal]

To be fair, if you're going to use rationale, there was no point taking Ponting on the last tour of India, or Warne in 2004. You shouldn't be leaving a player out just because he's toured there before and hasn't really performed.

Best post yet....

 

[social]

Best post yet....

Sure, 2 all time greats vs Lee

Let's get serious for a moment

Lee is a fine cricketer but hardly indispensible and doesnt deserve to be held in the same regard as either Ponting or Warne

 

[Smith]

And tbh Ponting did not set India on fire exactly last time around either.

 

[Uppercut]

India? Who are they? This is the Ashes mate.