Should Brett Lee be selected for the Ashes?

[Smith]

To be fair, if you're going to use rationale, there was no point taking Ponting on the last tour of India, or Warne in 2004. You shouldn't be leaving a player out just because he's toured there before and hasn't really performed.

And tbh Ponting did not set India on fire exactly last time around either.

India? Who are they? This is the Ashes mate.

 

[Top_Cat]

To be fair, if you're going to use rationale, there was no point taking Ponting on the last tour of India, or Warne in 2004. You shouldn't be leaving a player out just because he's toured there before and hasn't really performed.

Bit disingenuous. No-one has suggested that's the only reason to leave him out, it's just one of a few reasons. If Lee had been a team regular, had played in SA, even if he'd not done brilliantly, there'd be no dispute about his place in the side.

 

[scorpiogal]

Bit disingenuous. No-one has suggested that's the only reason to leave him out, it's just one of a few reasons. If Lee had been a team regular, had played in SA, even if he'd not done brilliantly, there'd be no dispute about his place in the side.

ahahahahahaha

What's the latest reason? That he's not a 'team regular'? Wtf? This just gets more ridiculous by the post!
Well then...Lee should've never been back in the squad after his Feb '07 ankle injury, since being out of the side for the WC meant he was no longer a 'team regular'!

Then, in that case, Clark shouldn't be anywhere near the Aussie side as he was away from the side much longer than Lee and out of form.

Can we call Siddle and Hilfenhaus 'team regulars' after playing only a few tests? Well...I wouldn't think so. Then...I'd say people should've never been calling for Hayden's head! I mean, forget the fact that the runs weren't coming, at least he was a 'team regular'!

LMFAO

 

[scorpiogal]

Sure, 2 all time greats vs Lee

Let's get serious for a moment

Lee is a fine cricketer but hardly indispensible and doesnt deserve to be held in the same regard as either Ponting or Warne

That's not the point he was making. The point is that the fact that a player has never performed on previous tours doesn't mean that he should be left out of future tours.

Ponting is hopeless against spin yet he goes back to India 'cause he's great and there's a chance that he may perform.

In the same light, Lee can play in the Ashes and bowl great and end up with alot of wickets or he can bowl 'great' like Hilfenhaus' 7 @ 52

You just can't know what he'll do and I'm definitely not going to walk around making predictions about his form.

 

[Top_Cat]

That's not the point he was making. The point is that the fact that a player has never performed on previous tours doesn't mean that he should be left out of future tours.

It'd be a foolhardy selector who'd ignore it, though.

Again, it's a bunch of factors which are in play, not just one. All of them conspire to make Lee a risky pick to lead a Test attack. That's the point.

Ponting is hopeless against spin yet he goes back to India 'cause he's great and there's a chance that he may perform.

For one, Ponting is far from hopeless against spin.

For two, you're right about Ponting being a great. Lee is far from being one of Aus's greatest bowlers. It's drawing a really long bow to say their situations are analogous.

Believe me, if he's picked and takes a bag, there'll be no-one happier than me (especially since it'll likely mean an Aus win). The poor bloke just has so many things against him, I can't see it happening.

 

[scorpiogal]

It'd be a foolhardy selector who'd ignore it, though.

Again, it's a bunch of factors which are in play, not just one. All of them conspire to make Lee a risky pick to lead a Test attack. That's the point.

And many of the other guys returning share many (if not most) of those factors as well.

 

[Burgey]

And many of the other guys returning share many (if not most) of those factors as well.

Are you his new girlfriend or something?

We get it, you seem to think he should be picked.

 

[scorpiogal]

It'd be a foolhardy selector who'd ignore it, though.


Believe me, if he's picked and takes a bag, there'll be no-one happier than me (especially since it'll likely mean an Aus win). The poor bloke just has so many things against him, I can't see it happening.

What does he have against him? Only his detractors, dude.

Fitness? Clark, Siddle & Watson have that as well.

Form? See above.

Being a 'team regular'? See above.

The only reasonable factor is past performances, and the untested guys can **** up just as bad as Lee, in that case too.

 

[scorpiogal]

Are you his new girlfriend or something?

Shhhhh....it's a secret.

 

[Burgey]

What does he have against him? Only his detractors, dude.

Fitness? Clark, Siddle & Watson have that as well.

Form? See above.

Being a 'team regular'? See above.

The only reasonable factor is past performances, and the untested guys can **** up just as bad as Lee, in that case too.

But a difference is he's been known to **** up in England before, even when fit and having played cricket in the lead up. The others haven't. Surely you can accept that in some people's eyes that militates against his selection?

 

[Prince EWS]

Are you his new girlfriend or something?

I don't think so, but she runs a pretty awesome fan-site for him.

This thread would be like someone telling you Hindmarsh shouldn't be in the NSW team. Only McCarthy would dare.

 

[scorpiogal]

I don't think so, but she runs a pretty awesome fan-site for him.

This thread would be like someone telling you Hindmarsh shouldn't be in the NSW team. Only McCarthy would dare.

Oh darn. I've been outed as a Lee fan. Who'd have known!

 

[Burgey]

I don't think so, but she runs a pretty awesome fan-site for him.

This thread would be like someone telling you Hindmarsh shouldn't be in the NSW team. Only McCarthy would dare.

Nah, I'd be happy to have Hindy not there if they picked blokes who were clearly better or were different types of players whom they picked because they are looking for something different.

but when Thurston throws a dummy and there's no one there trailing inside to pick him up in cover, or Lockyer puts a little grubber through and no one's there to trail back and smother it, or if not take the first hit up after the smother, and no one's there to play 80 minutes and make 50 plus tackles, you'll come to agree with me I'm sure .

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, I'd be happy to have Hindy not there if they picked blokes who were clearly better or were different types of players whom they picked because they are looking for something different.

but when Thurston throws a dummy and there's no one there trailing inside to pick him up in cover, or Lockyer puts a little grubber through and no one's there to trail back and smother it, or if not take the first hit up after the smother, and no one's there to play 80 minutes and make 50 plus tackles, you'll come to agree with me I'm sure .

I actually do agree with you, as do most sane rugby league fans. Unfortunately, "sane rugby league fans" is fast becoming an oxymoron, and "sane rugby league selectors" already is one. At least in New South Wales.

My post was just a cheeky way of letting her know I found her website whilst riling you up slightly at the same time. Given the two replies to it, it seems to have worked a charm.

 

[scorpiogal]

My post was just a cheeky way of letting her know I found her website whilst riling you up slightly at the same time. Given the two replies to it, it seems to have worked a charm.

You've been looking me up, aye? You're just the 15478564th person to find out about my site and who I am. Thanks for thinking it's awesome.

Btw, the site is run by my sister as well. Have to give credit where it's due.

 

[Burgey]

You've been looking me up, aye? You're just the 15478564th person to find out about my site and who I am. Thanks for thinking it's awesome.

Btw, the site is run by my sister as well. Have to give credit where it's due.

Linkage please...

 

[andyc]

Link?

Edit: That's what I get for leaving the page up for 5 minutes before posting

 

[scorpiogal]

Linkage please...

Errrr...I don't want to....I love my site and all but it's just that....

Oh okay. Brett Lee Online

 

[Top_Cat]

What does he have against him? Only his detractors, dude.

Fitness? Clark, Siddle & Watson have that as well.

Form? See above.

Being a 'team regular'? See above.

The only reasonable factor is past performances, and the untested guys can **** up just as bad as Lee, in that case too.

It's not just about the players themselves, though. Team balance comes into it. The bowling unit convincingly beat the most in-form batting line-up in the world right now at home and I see no value in ignoring that to accommodate an under-cooked Lee. If he was a proven gun, he might be able to trade on his rep a bit but his record overall, let alone in England, is against him on this one. Me personally, I'm heavily into the strength of 'team'. The bowlers in SA looked more like a bowling unit than Aus had in India or against South Africa and I'm loathe to mess with that.

I'm in the camp who reckons Lee bowled a fair bit better in 2005 than his figures would suggest so we'll see whether he can top it but then, he wasn't asked to lead the attack back then. It's a different scenario and considering his predilection for bowling utter tosh when under-worked, from a team perspective, I find it far too risky to pick him.

That said, if he was picked as the change bowler behind Siddle/Johnson, that I could deal with. Can't imagine him slotting behind those two and liking it, though.

 

[Burgey]

Errrr...I don't want to....I love my site and all but it's just that....

Oh okay. Brett Lee Online

You shouldn't be embarrassed - the site's great. Good on you.