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Atul Sharma

Whats going on?


  • Total voters
    61

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Meh, 'Pont' came in with an ultra-aggressive attitude (link) and it all went pear shaped from there. That's probably why people are being rude to him as opposed to the regular courtesy showed here (most of the time).
People have been claiming this guy is being hyped to the hill.

As you yourself said, this thread is one of the top google search results. Forget Pont, people have been angry in general denying this guy's existence. Now he exists and they demand more and more.

If you really don't care, then actually don't care.

I find the mystique around this fun. People are taking it way too seriously.
 

pasag

RTDAS
People have been claiming this guy is being hyped to the hill.

As you yourself said, this thread is one of the top google search results. Forget Pont, people have been angry in general denying this guy's existence. Now he exists and they demand more and more.

If you really don't care, then actually don't care.

I find the mystique around this fun. People are taking it way too seriously.
Not sure, but apparently there was hype before this thread as the thread starter implied though not in the media.

It's not just this forum, PC have a thread with 150+ posts about the guy. PakPassion have over 500 posts in multiple threads and ICF have around 200 posts in a couple of threads.

Was funny at first but now it's just annoying! Not that I think people shouldn't discuss it but I can understand why some people are having a go, especially when the OP directed the thread in a way to get that sort of response (ie 'Is it a hoax?')
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Sort of feels like tall poppy syndrome, except the seed was only planted two days ago.
Yup.

I'll cop it for saying this, but part of this 'anger' and aggression wouldn't have come about had it not been an Indian bowler, but a South African or West Indian instead.

The nature of the Irfan and Ishant hype (and silly posts by some fans) has put so many people on this board in a mindset whereby if something is said about an Indian player before they play 20 tests and take 40 wickets, it'll result in anger.

I find this guy interesting. The training he has received is unconventional, and that's why people are talking about. So what if there are threads on every cricket forum. I'd talk about it too if I saw a huge truck like him training in a Ivan Drago fashion (albeit outdoors).
 

pasag

RTDAS
So what if there are threads on every cricket forum. I'd talk about it too if I saw a huge truck like him training in a Ivan Drago fashion (albeit outdoors).
Honestly it's just surreal that it's even a story and it's lasted this long. Yes the training methods are unconventional, big deal. The guy hasn't played a proper competitive match that we know of and he already has thousands of posts about him on the net. It's not just on this board either, I think most people on most forums are quite perplexed at why this has become anything at all and that in itself has turned into the discussion - we're now discussing discussing him - it's got completley out of control. I reckon Pont in his wildest dreams wouldn't have imagined that he'd get such a reaction.

People in this thread talk about bad PR on Pont's behalf. I think it's brilliant, he's had huge, unprecendented exposure now through word of mouth. Now all they have to do is find out a way to leverage it (if they wanted to, obv).
 
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vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Jono said:
The nature of the Irfan and Ishant hype (and silly posts by some fans) has put so many people on this board in a mindset whereby if something is said about an Indian player before they play 20 tests and take 40 wickets, it'll result in anger.
That's only one wicket an innings. He's no good, stop overhyping him. :ph34r:
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
People in this thread talk about bad PR on Pont's behalf. I think it's brilliant, he's had huge, unprecendented exposure now through word of mouth. Now all they have to do is find out a way to leverage i (if they wanted to, obv).
That's one thing I'll agree with you about.

People like Goughy and others are only doing Pont favours (if this is what Pont wanted) by just reacting more and more.

When Pont showed the video, it was so obvious all the doubters were just going to pick something else they didn't like. Next it'll be "Yeah he bowls fast, but can he swing the ball?". Then after that "Well he can swing the ball, but can he bowl a slower ball?"

Maybe he can, maybe he can't, but you're all talking about him and not Dale Steyn or Mitchell Johnson who are taking test wickets by the truck load.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
The video montage was my way of saying, ''here he is''. But it's not an advert for his bowling speed or what he can do with a batsman as we haven't shown that. The montage is a flavour, a taste to create interest and debate - good or bad.

No one could POSSIBLY tell from those if he can be the next Shoaib. The point of them was again to showcase his look, build, style of bowling and the fact he can deliver a decent pace with little attack to the crease. His full run up makes it a completely different ball game.

Just to help you guys to look more closely - his bowling clips are in TRAINING SHOES and not even spikes. This was a non turf crease so he couldn't wear spikes, which have his inserts in and support. If you can still look quick off a short run up, without trying that hard, with no real ground speed and in your training shoes it says something.

Atul is different - YES. And that's the entire point. You can get excited by that or be critical of that but everyone has an opinion and that's great for this forum.

Finally, I have read much rubbish about being too big, bulky or muscled as being an injury risk. Power bowlers and throwers with explosive actions need support, strength and flexibility to create a stable action that is as stress-free as possible. If you do this you have LESS injuries not more. Cricket has JUST STARTED to get into strength & conditioning training (S&C), learned from other explosive power sports. So please do not compare training regimes of 20 or 10 years ago with today, or cricket's poor record of S&C compared to other sports. Legends like Botham, Kapil Dev, Imran etc wouldn't last (or wish to do it) in today's fitness levels and training regimes. But they were still amazing bowlers and cricketers back then.

All sports move on and many of the things runners used to do 30 years ago to prepare are almost laughable today. It doesn't make them wrong, or make new things right. But it does show that things change for the better (usually) with S&C becoming ABSOLUTELY KEY for a modern cricketer - and as I work in FC and international cricket I know what's expected. It's rapidly changing.

Atul has chosen to make himself strong, fast and supple and I don't have ANY issue with that. Others may not have his dedication to looking after himself and that's fine, but why he looks impressive is that he hasn't taken cricket's old fashioned approach to training. He's writing his own manual for that and others in cricket are mightily impressed with what he's done.

It doesn't make him a better or a lesser bowler - just more likely to be able to absorb the stresses and strains of the fast bowling workload. I think we are more likely to see cricketers looking like Athletes in the next few years than ever. The modern game, money at stake and amount of cricket almost demand it.
Pretty good post. I'm sort of surprised that everyone's been so aggressively critical. Didn't quite expect that - don't understand it either.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
When Pont showed the video, it was so obvious all the doubters were just going to pick something else they didn't like. Next it'll be "Yeah he bowls fast, but can he swing the ball?". Then after that "Well he can swing the ball, but can he bowl a slower ball?"
No. The video shows him working out. Thanks - I guess, but that's not what anyone was talking about. I suppose its too much to see a bowler bowl (actually bowl - full runups, maybe with a batsman at the other end....) when he hasn't played in a game in seven years?

We have 29 pages about a guy who has played no cricket, and still hasn't played any cricket. And people are talking about the international team!

Let him show he can make the Royal playing XI, and we'll see.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
R.P Singh useless ? sreesanth useless? munaf patel useless? Kumar ?All of them give the team
great options in different conditions and have performed and won us games and They are all young and learning and are much better bowlers than zaheer was when he was of their age on subcontinent.If zaheer or ishant get injured we will not miss them with others always doing well when needed ,use you head before making stupid comments.
You've conveniently left out Irfan Pathan, who isn't much better than them, but can score valuable runs. Praveen, not so much, but we'll take it.

All Indian pace bowlers average over 30, more so in Test cricket. Many of them have no more than one five-wicket haul.

RP Singh is not Test standard, and struggles to make even the ODI team. Sreesanth is injury-prone, and now bowling at reduced pace, can't do much. Munaf bowls medium-pace, can't field and doesn't try to bat. I don't buy that argument of him being 'told to bowl medium-pace', as the one who proposed that theory isn't with the team anymore, and there are enough batsmen who can bowl seam-up to pick to do the job. None of them are express pace, which is why they've had some bad times, and some really bad times that have resulted in them losing their places, often permanently. Where are they now? We've seen as many as eight Indian pacers play for India since 2004, sometimes five in a squad, when no more than four should be picked.

We're talking of assembling a team here. None of them fit the bill. None of them are good enough to replace a second spinner, even away. What they do can be done by batsmen bowling seam-up in other teams. I believe Indian spinners are always given a raw deal despite being very capable, because of this flawed sense of reasoning that pace wins matches abroad, even when Indian pace hasn't reached that level.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Back to this discussion, I hardly find any post, possibly one or two, which says that he should be playing for India. Nobody wants that so soon. It's once bitten, twice shy. Examples exist in Parthiv Patel, VRV Singh and Munaf Patel. The fans are just exploring the possibilities for a new, upcoming fast bowler, whom they find special. Just special, and not an automatic India prospect.

On the other hand, I find several posts, particularly from non-Indians and a few harsh Indian critics of the Indian team, panning his skills, his ability and even his very existence. They speak of it like it's a crime to discuss him at all.

Moreover, Ian Pont, Atul Sharma's coach, is a man of reasonable credibility. Among those who support him is Andy Flower, and surely, nobody will question his achievements and stature. He's written a book on essentials for fast bowlers, and surely, he understands fast bowling a lot better than most of us, who only talk cricket. He's worked with him, so he's a lot better informed than us, so we should let him talk, if he wishes to. He's spoken of him in other forums, and discussions have been very healthy and informative.

On the other hand, the aforementioned posters have been panning him, even go on to say he's rubbish, and no good, without having any idea of what is happening. Moreover, some of them have absolutely no understanding of the Indian domestic cricket scene to decide that he can't play for any team. Ponty's trying to clear all these misconceptions, but some folks out here then get into a needless, heated argument with him. Much as I don't endorse some of Ponty's responses, the kind of comments being passed around are enough to make any coach angry, and that's what happened.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
No. The video shows him working out. Thanks - I guess, but that's not what anyone was talking about. I suppose its too much to see a bowler bowl (actually bowl - full runups, maybe with a batsman at the other end....) when he hasn't played in a game in seven years?

We have 29 pages about a guy who has played no cricket, and still hasn't played any cricket. And people are talking about the international team!

Let him show he can make the Royal playing XI, and we'll see.
That's not the point though. The guy is a top athlete, and can bowl at the stumps at a very good pace. How many people in the world can do that? Kamran Khan also came from nowhere and is now doing pretty well in the IPL. I don't think it's gonna take long for Sharma to do that. India has NEVER produced a bowler who can bowl at 150kph. The very fact that there's a guy who finally can - even if in the nets - is huge news.

I understand the need to not be disappointed, but there's no reason to discredit him - healthy skepticism is ok.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
No. The video shows him working out. Thanks - I guess, but that's not what anyone was talking about. I suppose its too much to see a bowler bowl (actually bowl - full runups, maybe with a batsman at the other end....) when he hasn't played in a game in seven years?

We have 29 pages about a guy who has played no cricket, and still hasn't played any cricket. And people are talking about the international team!

Let him show he can make the Royal playing XI, and we'll see.
So basically, you didn't see what you wanted on the video and you're pissed off?

Who cares what was shown. People said he didn't exist, and he showed a training video of him.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
So basically, you didn't see what you wanted on the video and you're pissed off?

Who cares what was shown. People said he didn't exist, and he showed a training video of him.
Hah, hardly pissed off. Where would you get that from? I said I am not convinced he is actually good enough to even make the Royals XI, and nothing shown so far shows he can even bowl.

And if Ian wants to show us he can be a bowler, which is sort of the point, we need to see him bowling. That's all. You're attributing anger where there is none.

That's not the point though. The guy is a top athlete, and can bowl at the stumps at a very good pace.
Does he? How do you know?
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Hah, hardly pissed off. Where would you get that from? I said I am not convinced he is actually good enough to even make the Royals XI, and nothing shown so far shows he can even bowl.

And if Ian wants to show us he can be a bowler, which is sort of the point, we need to see him bowling. That's all. You're attributing anger where there is none.
Has anyone (that matters) said he can already make the Royals XI consistently though?

He obviously must have some resemblance of talent if the Royals chose him.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
The very fact that he has a Royals contract shows that this guy has promise. Whether it is promise of being a good club bowler, a good domestic bowler, a good IPL bowler, a good T20 bowler, a good one day bowler, a good test bowler is another matter altogether and too early to say.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Has anyone (that matters) said he can already make the Royals XI consistently though?
Well, people were expecting him to play from the first game, I said I doubted it.

He obviously must have some resemblance of talent if the Royals chose him.
I'm sure he is a great athlete, and Indian unknown players don't cost very much at all, I'm sure they'd take a punt on that.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
I just don't understand everyone's need for instant proof and gratification that the guy can play.

It's like me saying that Michael Hill will be a really good player for Victoria, and people saying that he won't be because even though he's got a rookie contract, he can't get a game for them.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I'm sure he is a great athlete, and Indian unknown players don't cost very much at all, I'm sure they'd take a punt on that.
Why would they keep him in the squad when sides including the Royals have trimmed their squads? The very fact that he is still in South Africa shows that he might have promise.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I just don't understand everyone's need for instant proof and gratification that the guy can play.

It's like me saying that Michael Hill will be a really good player for Victoria, and people saying that he won't be because even though he's got a rookie contract, he can't get a game for them.
Well, no one would have cared if his coach hadn't hyped him up like this. It's weird to promise a video for a bowler and then show him working out, and then only bowling off a shortened runup in the last few seconds.

It's up to him obviously, we'll see what happens. That is my only contention - let's not attribute anything to him without actually seeing something that shows, one way or another, his cricket skills.

Why would they keep him in the squad when sides including the Royals have trimmed their squads? The very fact that he is still in South Africa shows that he might have promise.
Sure. That still doesn't mean he'll get a game or can make the XI. I hope he does, and good luck to him.
 

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