Kevin Pietersen Vs Abraham De Villiers - Who's better in tests?

[King Pietersen]

I do not have posters of him on my wall.

But yes, being a fan of Pietersen may affect my ability to discuss him objectively a little, but you can't argue with pure fact. Pietersen has averaged over 50 in every year of his career except 2005, his first. He's scored hundreds against Warne and McGrath in England and Australia. He averages 51 in Test cricket. He's scored runs in almost every country he's played in, bar Sri Lanka, with multiple hundreds against every nation, and he's yet to play a minnow. You cannot argue with those facts. It appears the only thing AB De Villiers has in his favour is being better in the field, a better record in his 4 Tests in 2009, and an overall better away record.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Have you ever thought some may just not rate him as highly as you do ?

I mean with the greatest respect, you don't think the fact you've used his name for your screen-name, you've got his pic in your avatar & may well have posters of him all over your walls (just speculating here) may affect your ability to discuss him objectively ?

You really shouldn't use the word 'objective' if you're trying to suggest that DeVilliers is a better batsman than KP....

Because objectively speaking it's well in KP's favour (ie a test average of 51 compared to a test average of 43).

But hey, if AB DeVilliers can find some consistency over the next couple of years, then this might be an argument worth having.

I also think it's ridiculous to compare AB and Michael Clarke - again, Clarke is a 49 average batsman and AB a 43 average. Sure, on current form you could say AB is better - but on current form we'd have to be having the argument about AB DeVilliers vs Mitchell Johnson (both averaged 85 in the Aus in SA series...).

Being a great batsman means bringing it all the time. And good on AB for doing that the last 2 years, however he needs a larger body of evidence to prove that he's a better batsman than KP (if we're talking careers).

Again, let me say, if we want to talk about 'who is in better form right now' then there's more of an argument to have. But that's not the question.

The question is 'who is better in tests?'.
2 numbers answer that pretty well:
43.92 and 51.09

The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Zinzan]

You really shouldn't use the word 'objective' if you're trying to suggest that DeVilliers is a better batsman than KP....

.

Depends if your considering their respective test careers to date or whether your looking at their performances over the last 2 years. KP wins the former & AB the latter.

To be honest, I don't really have an opinion on who's the best test cricketer, just know I'd want AB in my side ahead of KP

 

[zaremba]

Yet you are comparing him to someone who, by your own admission, has had a good year. A couple of years ago, people on here were seriously putting Mike Hussey forward as the second-best batsman of all time, because they were suggesting that 20 tests at an average of around 85 was sufficient to draw that conclusion.

Incidentally, de Villiers' batting average in March 2005 was 43. In March 2006 it was, er, 43. A poor 2007 saw him slide down the ranking, but credit to the guy, in 2008 and 2009 he got his batting back on the rails to the extent that, by March 2009, he had got his average up to a staggering........

43.

I like this post.

KP for me. However I've not seen any of AB's recent batting v Australia. And his fielding, as has been pointed out, is very valuable indeed.

 

[zaremba]

Think of the fielding, folks! Noone ever thinks of the fielding. Here's the cricinfo commentary from the Perth match in December:


2.5 Ntini to Ponting, OUT, Ponting goes first ball! Would you believe it! Ntini bowls a fuller ball on a length, he pitches it just outside off stump, Ponting goes hard at the ball off the front foot, he is looking to push on the off side but gets a thick edge to AB de Villiers who takes a low catch at gully

5.2 Steyn to Hussey, OUT, Hussey's gone for a duck! He pushes forward at one that slants across him and gets a thick outside edge which flies low towards third slip, de Villiers dives forward and grabs it inches from the ground, terrific catch, what a fielder he is, Steyn's celebration is intense!
MEK Hussey c de Villiers b Steyn 0 (11m 7b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00

59.5 Kallis to Lee, OUT, what a catch!!! an absolute stunner. short of a good length outside off, Lee gets on the back foot to guide that past point, gets the outside edge and de Villiers dives full length to his left at second slip to pluck it out of thin air with both hands. Australia seven down now.
B Lee c de Villiers b Kallis 5 (8m 6b 1x4 0x6) SR: 83.33

79.4 Kallis to Krejza, OUT, stunning catch! By who else but AB de Villiers! Kallis angles a full ball into the right-hander, Krejza tries to drive off the front foot but the bat turns in his hand and he slices the ball off the face towards point, de Villiers leaps to his right at full stretch and takes the catch with both hands inches off the ground, what a sight! Terrific effort
JJ Krejza c de Villiers b Kallis 32 (81m 63b 5x4 0x6) SR: 50.79


That's in one match! The first was a difficult take, but the other three were all but impossible. And he went on to score an unbeaten century to chase down 414. The value of a player like this in the field is massively understated. I'd say South Africa could not have won that match with any other batsman in the side instead of AB, for that reason.

19.3 Morkel to Strauss, no run, now Strauss goes! Or does he? Strauss pushes forward away from his body, the thick edge goes to third slip where it carries to de Villiers who pops it down off his right hand into the ground and scoops it up. Strauss stands his ground, he thought there was something fishy about it and it's referred. He's given not out and de Villiers is roundly booed

de Villiers really should have caught that one - it definitely carried - instead it went into the ground

Well, incidents abound at Headingley. de Villiers certainly celebrated at the time while replays show Vaughan on the balcony gesticulating in bemused disbelief and with some frank language

 

[Daryl Harper]

Have you ever thought some may just not rate him as highly as you do ?

I mean with the greatest respect, you don't think the fact you've used his name for your screen-name, you've got his pic in your avatar & may well have posters of him all over your walls (just speculating here)

 

[oldmancraigy]

Depends if your considering their respective test careers to date or whether your looking at their performances over the last 2 years. KP wins the former & AB the latter.

To be honest, I don't really have an opinion on who's the best test cricketer, just know I'd want AB in my side ahead of KP

That's just because you don't like KP.

Based on their test careers so far - which are of similar length(KP has played 52 tests, AB 50) one would be mad not to pick KP.

14 test centuries to 9 - 8 runs per innings more.

Surprising how easily people around here under-rate a 50+ test average and try and compare it to a measly 43+ average.

 

[ozone]

That's just because you don't like KP.

Based on their test careers so far - which are of similar length(KP has played 52 tests, AB 50) one would be mad not to pick KP.

14 test centuries to 9 - 8 runs per innings more.

Surprising how easily people around here under-rate a 50+ test average and try and compare it to a measly 43+ average.

Not neccessarily surprising, KP is an arrogant **** who plays for England. The playing for England bit is enough for a lot of people to take an instant dislike to him, without even bringing in his attitude. It is crazy to compare the two players as batsmen, although I respect Uppercuts point about fielding. I would just rather have a batsman that averages 8 runs per innings more (or even 3-4 as I think is probably a fairer reflection of their abilities now) and is a slightly worse fielder. After all, its not that Pietersen is a bad fielder, de Villiers is just one of the best.

 

[Uppercut]

19.3 Morkel to Strauss, no run, now Strauss goes! Or does he? Strauss pushes forward away from his body, the thick edge goes to third slip where it carries to de Villiers who pops it down off his right hand into the ground and scoops it up. Strauss stands his ground, he thought there was something fishy about it and it's referred. He's given not out and de Villiers is roundly booed

de Villiers really should have caught that one - it definitely carried - instead it went into the ground

Well, incidents abound at Headingley. de Villiers certainly celebrated at the time while replays show Vaughan on the balcony gesticulating in bemused disbelief and with some frank language

It didn't carry- it bounced just before his hands. At least, that's how i remember it. I can't find a video of it anyway.

Not that it matters much, he's probably the best fielder in the game at the moment and one dropped catch doesn't change that. Took one of the best you'll ever see off Ian Bell in that very game, in fact.

 

[Uppercut]

I do not have posters of him on my wall.

But yes, being a fan of Pietersen may affect my ability to discuss him objectively a little, but you can't argue with pure fact. Pietersen has averaged over 50 in every year of his career except 2005, his first. He's scored hundreds against Warne and McGrath in England and Australia. He averages 51 in Test cricket. He's scored runs in almost every country he's played in, bar Sri Lanka, with multiple hundreds against every nation, and he's yet to play a minnow. You cannot argue with those facts. It appears the only thing AB De Villiers has in his favour is being better in the field, a better record in his 4 Tests in 2009, and an overall better away record.

Well if you'll just take a looksie here and compare with here you'll see De Villiers has, surprisingly, been outperforming KP quite comprehensively for the past two years (not calendar years, 24 months).

So the question you've got to ask yourself is, is it merely a purple patch for De Villiers or has he vastly improved? As i've posted before, De Villiers altering his technique significantly around the time of the vast improvement suggests the latter, although obviously he won't always be in quite as good touch as he is currently. Besides, as i ranted about in the other thread, to watch it's almost impossible to find fault with the way he plays.

But others here, like Top_Cat, think he's just a quality batsman in excellent form. And as eddie pointed out, plenty of batsmen have gone through patches of great form- Mike Hussey being the obvious example. AB could simply be on a good run.

If you believe the former, you've got to have him in your team ahead of KP because of what he brings in the field. But if you believe the latter, it's KP all the way. That's what it comes down to for me.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Not neccessarily surprising, KP is an arrogant **** who plays for England. The playing for England bit is enough for a lot of people to take an instant dislike to him, without even bringing in his attitude. It is crazy to compare the two players as batsmen, although I respect Uppercuts point about fielding. I would just rather have a batsman that averages 8 runs per innings more (or even 3-4 as I think is probably a fairer reflection of their abilities now) and is a slightly worse fielder. After all, its not that Pietersen is a bad fielder, de Villiers is just one of the best.

Agreed- I also think Pieterson is a tool. In contrast AB seems really nice - if I was playing in a team, then I would rather hang out with AB.

But, if we just assess their test match cricket credentials, the tool wins out...

 

[oldmancraigy]

Well if you'll just take a looksie here and compare with here you'll see De Villiers has, surprisingly, been outperforming KP quite comprehensively for the past two years (not calendar years, 24 months).

If you take a look at their last 50 test matches, you'll see KP has, surprisingly, been outperfoming AB quite comprehensively for the course of their careers to date.

Nobody is doubting that AB is in good form - but that's not the question that's being debated here. The question is 'Who's better in tests?' - and current answer is obviously Kevin Pieterson.

Now maybe AB can change all that over the next 3-4 years? But, that is not the question here!

 

[Uppercut]

If you take a look at their last 50 test matches, you'll see KP has, surprisingly, been outperfoming AB quite comprehensively for the course of their careers to date.

Nobody is doubting that AB is in good form - but that's not the question that's being debated here. The question is 'Who's better in tests?' - and current answer is obviously Kevin Pieterson.

Now maybe AB can change all that over the next 3-4 years? But, that is not the question here!

Why does the fact that KP adjusted to test cricket sooner have any impact on how good they are as players right now?

 

[grant28]

Kevin Pietersen. You said yourself that KP has consistently averaged over 50 for his Test Career and then AB has one good year and you ask if he's better?

 

[Uppercut]

I don't get this, will someone clear it up? Is Bradman currently better than both, despite being six feet underground? Probably, so that's a bad example. But is Greg Chappell better than both? Never mind the fact that he's positively ancient, he averaged 50 for longer than either of them.

I don't think anyone can say that AB has had a better career than KP, so i presumed the question was asking who you'd rather have in your team if you were picking them for a test match tomorrow, or if you wanted them for, say, the next five years. Or who is better right now, regardless of what has gone before. That way maybe there's a discussion worth having.

 

[boris_denominat]

Hi my namez AB DV i have never got out in the 90s before EVER.

 

[Top_Cat]

For mine, KP all the way. Forget stats or recent form, he's just more likely to rip the game out of the hands of his opponent. Has more gears too, even if he's always not sure when to use them; can nick-and-nudge in a tough situation or can launch balls into orbit as the situation demands. ABDV has been excellent at pressing home an advantage of late whereas I'd back KP to be better at making something happen, even if the team is in trouble. He does, however, drop his head a bit in a genuinely hopeless cause.

Couldn't care less about ABDV's fielding either. He's in the side to score runs. It's a nice bonus more than anything, especially since KP's no mug either.

 

[Pratters]

Well if you'll just take a looksie here and compare with here you'll see De Villiers has, surprisingly, been outperforming KP quite comprehensively for the past two years (not calendar years, 24 months).

So the question you've got to ask yourself is, is it merely a purple patch for De Villiers or has he vastly improved? As i've posted before, De Villiers altering his technique significantly around the time of the vast improvement suggests the latter, although obviously he won't always be in quite as good touch as he is currently. Besides, as i ranted about in the other thread, to watch it's almost impossible to find fault with the way he plays.

But others here, like Top_Cat, think he's just a quality batsman in excellent form. And as eddie pointed out, plenty of batsmen have gone through patches of great form- Mike Hussey being the obvious example. AB could simply be on a good run.

If you believe the former, you've got to have him in your team ahead of KP because of what he brings in the field. But if you believe the latter, it's KP all the way. That's what it comes down to for me.

DeVillier's average is boosted by 5 not outs.

 

[Pratters]

I am a big fan of AB and hate KP but have to say KP wins on career record for best over all test batsman despite being initiated into test cricket later due to larger periods of consistency.

 

[simmy]

KP, rather obviously...