luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Rikki?
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Kevin Pietersen Vs Abraham De Villiers - Who's better in tests?
- Thread starter Shri
- Start date
G.I.Joe
International Coach
Well, he has been around for longer than 3-5 years, but Sarwan is as young as Pietersen is. Similar average to Devilliers too. Then there's Gambhir who is a year younger and has 23 tests to his name, although not middle order.
And just quietly, Yuvraj. The lynching may commence.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Graeme Smith.
Will be great for comparison purposes. They despise each other, one chose to stay in RSA and work his way up while the other took the easier route and started playing for England.
Guess I have just opened a
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Migara
International Coach
He reckons KP is better than anyone.
AB easily. He scores runs when they're needed most against the very best, he plays to the situation with fantastic maturity for a guy his age, one of the few batsmen in world cricket who can win matches. He's flexible too and when the situation calls for it he can smack it around with the best of them. Also hits runs in foreign conditions when they aren't necessarily good for batting, his double in India was a masterpiece.
I still haven't seen KP hit a hundred in difficult conditions or in a winning cause against meaningful opposition (he had one in a dead rubber against SA last year). I saw that sky sports interview with him the other day, he mentioned his goals, not one of them involved team success. He cares about himself and only himself, look at those stupid dismissals in the 90s in games they then lost, no awareness of the situation or team need. He's basically a mercenary at the end of the day and doesn't have that playing for pride dogfighter mentality that you see in AB and players like S Waugh, Border, Dravid and Chanders, the willingness to tough it out when it isn't easy. Anyone remember that line he came out with, "It's your country, not mine"?
AB's also a lot technically better, Pietersen is very much a front foot on side player, he doesn't like the short ball at all and his off stump awareness can be pretty shaky. He also struggles when the ball's really turning. However all that said, in the 1st innings on a good batting deck, he's awesome.
I still haven't seen KP hit a hundred in difficult conditions or in a winning cause against meaningful opposition (he had one in a dead rubber against SA last year). I saw that sky sports interview with him the other day, he mentioned his goals, not one of them involved team success. He cares about himself and only himself, look at those stupid dismissals in the 90s in games they then lost, no awareness of the situation or team need. He's basically a mercenary at the end of the day and doesn't have that playing for pride dogfighter mentality that you see in AB and players like S Waugh, Border, Dravid and Chanders, the willingness to tough it out when it isn't easy. Anyone remember that line he came out with, "It's your country, not mine"?
AB's also a lot technically better, Pietersen is very much a front foot on side player, he doesn't like the short ball at all and his off stump awareness can be pretty shaky. He also struggles when the ball's really turning. However all that said, in the 1st innings on a good batting deck, he's awesome.
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Haha, hum. I think i'd prefer Smithy in my team because he's so damn good under pressure and they score a comparable amount of runs. Also think it's harder being an opener.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Actually, KP vs. Smith vs. Sehwag would be interesting. Obviously KP is a middle order batsman compared to those two being openers, but still... all 3 very accomplished batsman in this era.
I reckon you could mix up any of the following:
- AB Dev
- Prince
- G Smith
- Sehwag
- Clarke
- Pietersen
- Sarwan
- Cook (probably still too early for him)
...and have some interesting discussion
I reckon you could mix up any of the following:
- AB Dev
- Prince
- G Smith
- Sehwag
- Clarke
- Pietersen
- Sarwan
- Cook (probably still too early for him)
...and have some interesting discussion
Shri
Mr. Glass
And I have not yet seen KP batting with a broken hand trying to save a test match.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Skunks are smelly.Yeah but has Smith ever done the switch-hit
Or had a skunk haircut?
Daryl Harper
School Boy/Girl Captain
Plus the jammy bar steward never gets injured. Which helps.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Think KP (King Pietersen) is putting far too much weight on Pietersen's individual statistics and not whether he plays purely for the team with their best interests at heart.
He's a gifted player no doubt - but dismissals off Harris (last year) and Benn recently when in the 90s highlights the sometimes disregard for making huge scores which he's well capable of doing.
He's a gifted player no doubt - but dismissals off Harris (last year) and Benn recently when in the 90s highlights the sometimes disregard for making huge scores which he's well capable of doing.
King Pietersen
International Captain
Oh come on, not sure how you can say he plays for himself after getting out in the 90's twice. Sarwan did exactly the same as KP, Cook got himself out in the 90's as well, them 2 playing for themselves as well?
I have never understood this belief that Pietersen plays for himself and plays for his own statistics. Having read KP's autobiography it's clear to me that he's very much a team player. It shows in his interviews as well, he's desperate for his runs to lead to England wins. He plays in a positive manner and makes scores on a consistent basis, what more can he do? He'd be criticised if he averaged 40, but gets similarly criticised for averaging 50. Makes no sense.
Pietersen's a class act, and yeh, he should probably make a few more big scores, but he's consistently making hundreds, and has averaged 50 every year since 2005. He's getting better and better as a cricketer, and constantly improving his game. As I said earlier in the thread, give it 2-3 years and KP'll be averaging 55-56 in Test Cricket. He will be the greatest of his generation, and possibly Englands greatest all-round batsman.
Also, anyone that takes my signature seriously is a moron. You don't honestly think I rate KP higher than every single batsman to have ever played the game do you? =/
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Check said dismissals and then get back to me.
'Great' players don't tend to throw their wickets away when they're in a most dominant position.
As i said, Pietersen will be well on his to greatness if such manners of dismissal are eliminated from his game - simple as that.
ozone
First Class Debutant
Despite being a huge fan of AB, I can't really understand why you would put him in a side ahead of Pietersen, unless you were just picking a form side for a test starting tommorrow. Long term, reckon Pietersen will average mid-high 50s by the time his career finishes while AB will average low 50s or (if he takes the gloves for SA) high-40s.
EDIT: BTW, Pietersen is selfish, but in a way which is beneficial to the team (if that makes sense).
EDIT: BTW, Pietersen is selfish, but in a way which is beneficial to the team (if that makes sense).
King Pietersen
International Captain
Every great player has got out in the 90's at least once, and every batsman is prone to throwing his wicket away, especially one that plays in the way KP does. Tendulkar's probably the best of his generation, but he's got out in the 90's in Test cricket 7 times, and 17 times in ODi cricket. He not a 'great' player?
I'm not going to bring out the "that's just how he plays" argument, as I don't agree with it, he should have composed himself and played far more sensibly, but as he said himself, the field was up on both occassions, and as always he backs himself to pull off the stroke, it just didn't come off for him, the shot was definitely on on both occassions though. When it comes off people praise him, but as soon as he gets out playing a shot exactly the same the criticism comes in.
Pietersen splits opinion. Some people don't like the arrogance, and because he's successful they try to criticise him, fabricating this argument that he plays for himself, but to be the best you have to have a slight selfish instinct. That's what seperated Sir Jack Hobbs from Sir Donald Bradman. Many journalists and guys that played with them both claim that Hobbs was as talented as Bradman, if not slightly more talented, but Bradman had the selfish mindset that allowed him to amass these massive scores, Hobbs didn't. Pietersen does not play for his statistics though, if England need him to seriously up the rate with the chance he'll throw his wicket away, then he'll do so. Look at his innings in the 5th Test of the England-Windies series, he smacked the West Indies attack around to set up a winning position for his team. He's a team player, but has just the right amount of 'selfishness' to allow him to be the class act that he is.
I'm not going to bring out the "that's just how he plays" argument, as I don't agree with it, he should have composed himself and played far more sensibly, but as he said himself, the field was up on both occassions, and as always he backs himself to pull off the stroke, it just didn't come off for him, the shot was definitely on on both occassions though. When it comes off people praise him, but as soon as he gets out playing a shot exactly the same the criticism comes in.
Pietersen splits opinion. Some people don't like the arrogance, and because he's successful they try to criticise him, fabricating this argument that he plays for himself, but to be the best you have to have a slight selfish instinct. That's what seperated Sir Jack Hobbs from Sir Donald Bradman. Many journalists and guys that played with them both claim that Hobbs was as talented as Bradman, if not slightly more talented, but Bradman had the selfish mindset that allowed him to amass these massive scores, Hobbs didn't. Pietersen does not play for his statistics though, if England need him to seriously up the rate with the chance he'll throw his wicket away, then he'll do so. Look at his innings in the 5th Test of the England-Windies series, he smacked the West Indies attack around to set up a winning position for his team. He's a team player, but has just the right amount of 'selfishness' to allow him to be the class act that he is.
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Think of the fielding, folks! Noone ever thinks of the fielding. Here's the cricinfo commentary from the Perth match in December:
2.5 Ntini to Ponting, OUT, Ponting goes first ball! Would you believe it! Ntini bowls a fuller ball on a length, he pitches it just outside off stump, Ponting goes hard at the ball off the front foot, he is looking to push on the off side but gets a thick edge to AB de Villiers who takes a low catch at gully
5.2 Steyn to Hussey, OUT, Hussey's gone for a duck! He pushes forward at one that slants across him and gets a thick outside edge which flies low towards third slip, de Villiers dives forward and grabs it inches from the ground, terrific catch, what a fielder he is, Steyn's celebration is intense!
MEK Hussey c de Villiers b Steyn 0 (11m 7b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00
59.5 Kallis to Lee, OUT, what a catch!!! an absolute stunner. short of a good length outside off, Lee gets on the back foot to guide that past point, gets the outside edge and de Villiers dives full length to his left at second slip to pluck it out of thin air with both hands. Australia seven down now.
B Lee c de Villiers b Kallis 5 (8m 6b 1x4 0x6) SR: 83.33
79.4 Kallis to Krejza, OUT, stunning catch! By who else but AB de Villiers! Kallis angles a full ball into the right-hander, Krejza tries to drive off the front foot but the bat turns in his hand and he slices the ball off the face towards point, de Villiers leaps to his right at full stretch and takes the catch with both hands inches off the ground, what a sight! Terrific effort
JJ Krejza c de Villiers b Kallis 32 (81m 63b 5x4 0x6) SR: 50.79
That's in one match! The first was a difficult take, but the other three were all but impossible. And he went on to score an unbeaten century to chase down 414. The value of a player like this in the field is massively understated. I'd say South Africa could not have won that match with any other batsman in the side instead of AB, for that reason.
2.5 Ntini to Ponting, OUT, Ponting goes first ball! Would you believe it! Ntini bowls a fuller ball on a length, he pitches it just outside off stump, Ponting goes hard at the ball off the front foot, he is looking to push on the off side but gets a thick edge to AB de Villiers who takes a low catch at gully
5.2 Steyn to Hussey, OUT, Hussey's gone for a duck! He pushes forward at one that slants across him and gets a thick outside edge which flies low towards third slip, de Villiers dives forward and grabs it inches from the ground, terrific catch, what a fielder he is, Steyn's celebration is intense!
MEK Hussey c de Villiers b Steyn 0 (11m 7b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00
59.5 Kallis to Lee, OUT, what a catch!!! an absolute stunner. short of a good length outside off, Lee gets on the back foot to guide that past point, gets the outside edge and de Villiers dives full length to his left at second slip to pluck it out of thin air with both hands. Australia seven down now.
B Lee c de Villiers b Kallis 5 (8m 6b 1x4 0x6) SR: 83.33
79.4 Kallis to Krejza, OUT, stunning catch! By who else but AB de Villiers! Kallis angles a full ball into the right-hander, Krejza tries to drive off the front foot but the bat turns in his hand and he slices the ball off the face towards point, de Villiers leaps to his right at full stretch and takes the catch with both hands inches off the ground, what a sight! Terrific effort
JJ Krejza c de Villiers b Kallis 32 (81m 63b 5x4 0x6) SR: 50.79
That's in one match! The first was a difficult take, but the other three were all but impossible. And he went on to score an unbeaten century to chase down 414. The value of a player like this in the field is massively understated. I'd say South Africa could not have won that match with any other batsman in the side instead of AB, for that reason.
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Zinzan
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Have you ever thought some may just not rate him as highly as you do ?
I mean with the greatest respect, you don't think the fact you've used his name for your screen-name, you've got his pic in your avatar & may well have posters of him all over your walls (just speculating here) may affect your ability to discuss him objectively ?