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England down to 6th in test rankings

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Like I've said before elsewhere on CC, I never thought I would say anything against Hoggard being picked. But then when I saw him I totally changed my mind.
So do you really think 29-year-old Australians with 10 First-Class games, and the large number of utterly hopeless seamers who've played for England A and graced England squads in recent times are better?

That Hoggard has declined is not something I'll rule-out, fair do's. But to suggest there are obviously 9-10 better bowlers in the country, to me, is pretty ridiculous.
 

Daryl Harper

School Boy/Girl Captain
Pryor isn't a good batsman either, as well as being an awful keeper.

He's only hit around The Windies, one time slogging at about 400-5 and no pressure, and another time on a road against their part time medium pacers.

He gets found out whenever he faces decent bowling, like Vs India.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
The biggest hindrance to English Cricket is not the quality of the players but the selectors. Take the selection of Amjad Khan to the ODI squad as cover for Sidebottom as an example. There are few things in cricket that are dead certainities, one of which is that Amjad Khan will be a failure in ODI cricket. Heres a bowler that bowls with his head facing the ground, he can barely land 2 balls on the line and he goes at almost 4 runs an over in FC cricket, and we dont even need to get started on his record in List A cricket and yet somehow hes expected to contribute to the England ODI side? This is a clear example of the kind of clouded decision making that we see from our English selectors.

In my opinion England have the players to be amongst the top 3 teams in the world. If Panesar can consistently bowl like he did in the final test at Port of Spain, we might just have the 2nd most potent spin attack going around in International cricket outside of M&M. Our pace battery should really involve Hoggard, Flintoff, Anderson, Broad with Harmison on standby. I am sick and tired of this Sidebottom rubbish, the fact of the matter is that hes never proven to anyone in the world that he can take wickets when the ball aint swinging, and even when it is swinging, Ive never been convinced that hes the best bowler going around in England. If he wasnt fit, as people go on claiming that he wasnt, he should never have set foot to play any of the tests that he has played over the last 12 months. Our selection policy with the bowlers, seems to remind me of Indias a few years ago, where they would pick two of Zaheer, Nehra, Pathan, Balaji, RP, VRV out of a hat and then come up with a different 2 for the next game.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Pryor isn't a good batsman either, as well as being an awful keeper.

He's only hit around The Windies, one time slogging at about 400-5 and no pressure, and another time on a road against their part time medium pacers.

He gets found out whenever he faces decent bowling, like Vs India.
Yeah, terrible series against Sri Lanka away (ave 41) and India away (ave 44) the last two winters. :wacko:
 

tooextracool

International Coach
He is yet to be tested against quality seam and swing bowling. I am sure he will be during the Ashes. I have little doubt that hes the best batsman-wicket keeper going around, but he hasnt proven himself completely as a batter yet, nor has he convinced anyone about his wicket keeping skills
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
He is yet to be tested against quality seam and swing bowling. I am sure he will be during the Ashes. I have little doubt that hes the best batsman-wicket keeper going around, but he hasnt proven himself completely as a batter yet, nor has he convinced anyone about his wicket keeping skills
No, he hasn't, but his record thus far means that he deserves the chance to fail with the bat.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
He is yet to be tested against quality seam and swing bowling. I am sure he will be during the Ashes. I have little doubt that hes the best batsman-wicket keeper going around, but he hasnt proven himself completely as a batter yet, nor has he convinced anyone about his wicket keeping skills
Agreed, though I think he's doing pretty well so far, and he's coped well with the pressure on him and played some good innings, for example against Murali in Sri Lanka and in Chennai this winter. I don't think he's as bad a keeper as people say, though he's not great. But I hope he gets a good run, because there's no reason why he can't improve somewhat.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
So do you really think 29-year-old Australians with 10 First-Class games, and the large number of utterly hopeless seamers who've played for England A and graced England squads in recent times are better?

That Hoggard has declined is not something I'll rule-out, fair do's. But to suggest there are obviously 9-10 better bowlers in the country, to me, is pretty ridiculous.
I don't think so necessarily. But there must be a reason why he hasn't been selected, whether that's fitness or attitude or pace or whatever else. We might bash the selectors but I'm sure they do what they do in good faith and for what they think is good reason.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Agreed, though I think he's doing pretty well so far, and he's coped well with the pressure on him and played some good innings, for example against Murali in Sri Lanka and in Chennai this winter. I don't think he's as bad a keeper as people say, though he's not great. But I hope he gets a good run, because there's no reason why he can't improve somewhat.
I like Prior, hes one of the best players of spin in the side and he comes across as a fairly sensible player who knows his limitations. There are technical weaknesses against pace IMO, that we are yet to see, but as I mentioned earlier, even with a weakness on seamer friendly tracks he would still be miles better than most wicket keeper batsmen in the country.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Always thought it was a bit silly when people insist that their wicket keeper can't be a batting success at test level because "on a seaming track, in swinging conditions, against world-class fast bowlers, he won't score that many runs." You might as well say "when Neptune is aligned with Jupiter..." because he's going to play world-class fast bowlers on good form on a seaming, swinging track about twice every 100 matches.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Theres little evidence at the moment to suggest that Harbhajan and Mishra are much better than Swann and Monty from the Trinidad test. Harbhajan has had problems holding down his own place in the side away from home and Mishra is still largely an unknown quantity having played all his tests at home. M&M is really the only spin bowling duo I can say is always likely to be better than the English duo.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Always thought it was a bit silly when people insist that their wicket keeper can't be a batting success at test level because "on a seaming track, in swinging conditions, against world-class fast bowlers, he won't score that many runs." You might as well say "when Neptune is aligned with Jupiter..." because he's going to play world-class fast bowlers on good form on a seaming, swinging track about twice every 100 matches.
I wouldnt quite go that far, but yes hes not going to be playing top quality pace bowlers on tracks that offer something to them very often in test match cricket. If he were playing as a specialist batsman, I would be a little worried about that, especially considering that English pitches typically offer a fair bit to pace bowlers that are capable of exploiting the conditions. However, my earlier comments more or less mirror what you said as I dont think it really matters much when you are a wicket keeper batter coming in at 6 or 7. The question marks at the moment are pointed squarely at his wicket keeping ability at this point.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Which is 1 more match than Swann and Panesar have played together.

Swann and Panesar bowling together:
24 W @ 37.92

Swann 14 @ 32.78
Panesar 10 @ 45.10

Vettori and Patel:
49 @ 31.45

Vettori 27 @ 30.40
Patel 22 @ 32.72

Harby and Mishra:
38 @ 25.81

Harby 20 @ 26.70
Mishra 18 @ 24.83
 

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