England down to 6th in test rankings

[Uppercut]

5 days of ball and chain, year after year might change your mind, 3-4 days outside of Adelaide usually
Holier than thou attitude.....
Constant ego stroking as no other set of fans would still support their side if they were losing
Reminders to everyone that they are the greatest fans in the world [/tug.jpg]

But also plenty of good atmosphere too. This is just one theory I came up with at work as without fail: news of the lost series made the rounds at work and most took just as much pleasure from the defeat as Australia's win over SA

Haha, i've only met a few people who were in it but they weren't like that. It's all a bit of fun really. Inciting the Anglo-Aussie rivalry and thereby making you want them to lose is kinda the point

 

[Redbacks]

Haha, i've only met a few people who were in it but they weren't like that. It's all a bit of fun really. Inciting the Anglo-Aussie rivalry and thereby making you want them to lose is kinda the point

Works for me It's just interesting that most of the England fans on CW are almost the opposite making blatant dislike for the English cricket team less reasonable.

 

[GIMH]

Really? I don't mind the Army at all. Always good for a few chuckles and pretty harmless. In a way they're what i wish English football fans would be like so they benefit in comparison.

It's something to be grateful for. What harm do they do anyway? The Barmy Army i mean, not the English footy fans.

FInd myself agreeing with the Irishman a lot lately. The Barmy Army are pretty harmless as far as I can see, and generally ensure that there are decent crowds in most places that we play Test matches.

Regarding the matter at hand, struggle to see how we landed below Pakistan but otherwise you can't complain, everyone above us has beaten us recently

 

[stephen]

I haven't really followed the English team since they were in Aus two years ago.

However, it seems to me that the English team has:

Two decent openers (without being Great) in Strauss and Cook
A couple of decent middle order bats in Collingwood and Prior (though he is a lousy keeper I've heard)
A world class bat in Pieterson
A poor batsman in Shah (though he may graduate to decent)
A very injury prone Flintoff
A very weak/inexperienced fast bowling lineup of Anderson, Broad and Khan
A couple of decent looking spinners in the form of Swann and Panassar

Basically to me it looks like Shah needs to come good, Simon Jones, Hoggard or Harmison need to return to some form and return and Flintoff needs to have a big series if England are to be any real threat to Australia.

I do think that England probably have the batting lineup to draw a test or two, but they appear (on paper at least) to not have the firepower to win any.

 

[Richard]

Hoggard will never play for England again barring some drastic regime change, involving I'm-not-remotely-sure-which position. Someone, somewhere has decided he isn't playing again. There are now any number of inferior and vastly inferior options who've played Tests ahead of him.

He is, as far as I can see, bowling about as well now as he generally has done. Yet someone has decided he's out and he ain't coming back.

Maybe one day we'll find-out the reasons, but they sure as anything ain't related to on-field performance.

 

[stephen]

Hoggard will never play for England again barring some drastic regime change, involving I'm-not-remotely-sure-which position. Someone, somewhere has decided he isn't playing again. There are now any number of inferior and vastly inferior options who've played Tests ahead of him.

He is, as far as I can see, bowling about as well now as he generally has done. Yet someone has decided he's out and he ain't coming back.

Maybe one day we'll find-out the reasons, but they sure as anything ain't related to on-field performance.

He could get a call up at 4-0 down.

 

[Richard]

I can understand the frustration with Prior however,

a) I dont think keeper is the worst of our problems right now.
and
b) I dont really rate the alternatives.

If he stays then Im fine with that until an alternative I like comes along. Is that Davies right now? I dont know?

I agree completely that the wicketkeeper isn't the worst of the current problems. However, I think it is a problem. Alec Stewart asserted that Prior had kept "pretty well" in the First and Second Tests, after his dreadful performance in the Fourth. I don't agree. Prior's performance in the first couple (and in India) was merely less poor than previously.

We've seen several of the alternatives, and Tim Ambrose is indisputably a vastly superior gloveman. Davies, apparently, is as well. Foster certainly is.

Of course, it'd very probably weaken the batting to bring any of them in in place of him, though I still say I'm waiting to see Prior get some runs against good-quality seamers before I'm sure about him as a Test batsman.

If he continues to score and Shah exhausts his chances (sadly that may now have happened) then Prior should play as a batsman as long as his good performances continue and someone else should come in in place of Shah to keep wicket.

Prior's wicketkeeping is simply not good enough for Test cricket. It does not meet the minimum standard expected and thus it is always going to be a disadvantage to England to have him behind the sticks.

 

[Evermind]

Shah, as I had predicted, turned out to be as crap as Bell.

Watch out now for Swann to turn out as crap as Monty.

 

[Uppercut]

Shah, as I had predicted, turned out to be as crap as Bell.

Watch out now for Swann to turn out as crap as Monty.

Even if he is, at least he's not a prank-batsman who can't catch.

 

[four_or_six]

Hoggard will never play for England again barring some drastic regime change, involving I'm-not-remotely-sure-which position. Someone, somewhere has decided he isn't playing again. There are now any number of inferior and vastly inferior options who've played Tests ahead of him.

He is, as far as I can see, bowling about as well now as he generally has done. Yet someone has decided he's out and he ain't coming back.

Maybe one day we'll find-out the reasons, but they sure as anything ain't related to on-field performance.

I'm not so sure about that. I was really annoyed about Hoggard getting dropped. Then I saw him in a domestic match and he looked awful. He was really down on the speed gun and he looked totally unfit. Since then, I could understand why after going back and playing for Yorkshire, Vaughan didn't fight for his inclusion.

 

[four_or_six]

I haven't really followed the English team since they were in Aus two years ago.

However, it seems to me that the English team has:

Two decent openers (without being Great) in Strauss and Cook
A couple of decent middle order bats in Collingwood and Prior (though he is a lousy keeper I've heard)
A world class bat in Pieterson
A poor batsman in Shah (though he may graduate to decent)
A very injury prone Flintoff
A very weak/inexperienced fast bowling lineup of Anderson, Broad and Khan
A couple of decent looking spinners in the form of Swann and Panassar

Basically to me it looks like Shah needs to come good, Simon Jones, Hoggard or Harmison need to return to some form and return and Flintoff needs to have a big series if England are to be any real threat to Australia.

I do think that England probably have the batting lineup to draw a test or two, but they appear (on paper at least) to not have the firepower to win any.

Lots of more inexperienced bowlers don't look good to start with, then they seem to have a breakthrough series and they're off and running. I'm hoping people like Broad, Swann and (though he is more experienced) Anderson will do just that in the near future.

 

[Richard]

I'm not so sure about that. I was really annoyed about Hoggard getting dropped. Then I saw him in a domestic match and he looked awful. He was really down on the speed gun and he looked totally unfit. Since then, I could understand why after going back and playing for Yorkshire, Vaughan didn't fight for his inclusion.

So Darren Pattinson, Amjad Khan and the several other completely random selections are all better bowlers? Not a chance.

Hoggard's exclusion has alterior motives somewhere, for someone.

 

[four_or_six]

So Darren Pattinson, Amjad Khan and the several other completely random selections are all better bowlers? Not a chance.

Hoggard's exclusion has alterior motives somewhere, for someone.

Well it's really only Darren Pattinson to consider, since they wouldn't pick Hoggard out of nowhere in the middle of the winter. If he'd wanted that he should probably have gone abroad somewhere and played. And if Hoggard was overweight and bowling slowly, you can see why they might prefer Pattinson for a one-off.

 

[Richard]

Shah, as I had predicted, turned out to be as crap as Bell.

No he didn't. Shah has played a fraction of the matches Bell has so far and thus hasn't turned-out anything.

 

[Richard]

Well it's really only Darren Pattinson to consider, since they wouldn't pick Hoggard out of nowhere in the middle of the winter. If he'd wanted that he should probably have gone abroad somewhere and played. And if Hoggard was overweight and bowling slowly, you can see why they might prefer Pattinson for a one-off.

Hoggard's never been slimline. And Amjad and any number of others have been playing for England A ahead of Hoggard, all of which has precious little merit based purely on on-field considerations.

Hoggard may have been a little disappointing last year, but he was still pretty good.

 

[Richard]

Lots of more inexperienced bowlers don't look good to start with, then they seem to have a breakthrough series and they're off and running. I'm hoping people like Broad, Swann and (though he is more experienced) Anderson will do just that in the near future.

If Anderson is to have a breakthrough, you imagine it was probably last summer.

 

[four_or_six]

Hoggard's never been slimline. And Amjad and any number of others have been playing for England A ahead of Hoggard, all of which has precious little merit based purely on on-field considerations.

Hoggard may have been a little disappointing last year, but he was still pretty good.

Like I've said before elsewhere on CC, I never thought I would say anything against Hoggard being picked. But then when I saw him I totally changed my mind.

 

[four_or_six]

If Anderson is to have a breakthrough, you imagine it was probably last summer.

Yes, true enough.

 

[Slifer]

I think England have been beset with serious injuries to several of their key players which once rectified, i would expect them to be among the top teams again. I dont follow English cricket much, so what became of Matthew Hoggard and Simon Jones?

 

[stephen]

Simon Jones hasn't played a test since the '05 ashes series due to injury.

Hoggard has been dropped since early 2008.