*Official* England in West Indies

[Neil Pickup]

well they have their own nationality now, and I think with enough help and development the irish could go somewhere in cricket...

Your point about the water remains utterly invalid nonethless.

 

[Kweek]

Your point about the water remains utterly invalid nonethless.

in that case, England has been pretty dutch, the dutch have been Spanish for a long long time...even French for a while...

 

[superkingdave]

in that case, England has been pretty dutch, the dutch have been Spanish for a long long time...even French for a while...

still failing to make sense.

Ireland was part of Britain for longer than Tasmania has been part of Australia, or even Australia has existed. Forgive my ignorance but i never thought Spain invaded the Netherlands, nor the Netherlands invaded England. This of course has no effect on the point that Ireland is not part of Britain anymore, nor does it want to be and they should have their own cricket team regardless of what Richard says

 

[Richard]

Ireland (Republic Of, at least) obviously isn't part of Britain any more (Northern still is, and like the rugby there's no definition made between NI and ROI so thus whether one is part of Britain or not is 100% irrelevant) but it's still part of the British Isles, and that's what the cricket team has historically been based on. The few Irish players who've gotten interested in and good at cricket have always played for counties. To attempt to change this is very probably completely futile and in my opinion, plain wrong. And the main reason it's attempted is because ICC want to make it look like they've attracted new countries to cricket when in reality they've done nothing of the sort.

 

[Richard]

Ireland and England are different countries who are you to judge that their shouldnt be an Irish national side?

I've never said there shouldn't be an Irish national side - in fact there should, and I wish there had been a long, long time ago - but it should play domestic, not international, cricket.

 

[Smudge]

England's a nation built on immigration anyway, let's keep on embracing it.

Yep, keep embracing it with Flutey, Vainikolo, Stevens...

 

[fredfertang]

I've never said there shouldn't be an Irish national side - in fact there should, and I wish there had been a long, long time ago - but it should play domestic, not international, cricket.

... and then there's the Welsh ......

 

[Richard]

Wales' domestic side has essentially been playing Championship cricket for the last 88 years.

I only wish East Stirlingshire and some Irish county had joined the Championship around the time Glamorgan did. Then the board formed in 1997 would've been the England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland Cricket Board (probably simplified to British Isles Cricket Board or something). And we'd have had none of this silly we've-attracted-new-countries-when-we've-actually-done-nothing-of-the-sort crap.

 

[Kweek]

still failing to make sense.

Ireland was part of Britain for longer than Tasmania has been part of Australia, or even Australia has existed. Forgive my ignorance but i never thought Spain invaded the Netherlands, nor the Netherlands invaded England. This of course has no effect on the point that Ireland is not part of Britain anymore, nor does it want to be and they should have their own cricket team regardless of what Richard says

Holland has been spanish for atleast 80 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years'_War

 

[Jigga988]

Yep, keep embracing it with Flutey, Vainikolo, Stevens...

Not to mention Danny Cipriani, stealing the only good Trini qualified rugby player in the World

 

[Pothas]

still failing to make sense.

Ireland was part of Britain for longer than Tasmania has been part of Australia, or even Australia has existed. Forgive my ignorance but i never thought Spain invaded the Netherlands, nor the Netherlands invaded England. This of course has no effect on the point that Ireland is not part of Britain anymore, nor does it want to be and they should have their own cricket team regardless of what Richard says

Spanish monarchy used to be in charge of the Netherlands a few hundred years ago and William of Orange was Dutch and King of England. But yeah your point is totally correct.

 

[Kweek]

then imho...as India was ruled longer by England then England ever owned Ireland, all Indian players should play for England...come to think of it, all test nations players should play for England..

maybe finally England will win some games then...

come to think of it..no they won't because the english are very good at finding something to take them down.


just following Ritcharts logic here...

 

[FBU]

I've seen him, and I've also followed his career from the start. He's a very typical moderate county bowler - generally does just enough to keep a contract for next year but isn't really that good. The only thing that sets him apart from the crowd is that he's a bit quicker.

His typical season is to end with 50-odd wickets at 32-33, because he's had the odd really good game and quite a few bad ones, including quite a few where he's been expensive for a 4\5-for. I've not been all that surprised either - he's the sort of bowler who is undoubtedly capable of bowling very well but doesn't do it very often and is sometimes flattered by his figures when he doesn't. The very last thing you want in a Test bowler. I'd rather have someone from whom you can rely on to give you decent support bowling in most games rather than someone who'll offer you nothing most of the time and occasionally the potential to be devastating.

I have only seen Khan bowl at 85mph. He has been injury prone and has bowled 145 overs in two years. The last time he played any cricket was over 5 months ago. He is nearly in the same boat as Sidebottom who has managed 49 overs in 7 months.

 

[Precambrian]

My money is on Bopara

This. Going back to Bell would give all sorts of wrong messages. Bring as well Vaughan back.

 

[fredfertang]

Wales' domestic side has essentially been playing Championship cricket for the last 88 years.

This is what is so odd - that is exactly how Glamorgan have always seen themselves particularly in the sixties when they made history by beating successive Australian touring teams - yet despite the upsurge in nationalism in recent years (which I fully support) and the Irish and the sweaties getting their own national teams in World Cups they have never agitated for cricketing independence - I don't understand these Celts at all

 

[Uppercut]

This is what is so odd - that is exactly how Glamorgan have always seen themselves particularly in the sixties when they made history by beating successive Australian touring teams - yet despite the upsurge in nationalism in recent years (which I fully support) and the Irish and the sweaties getting their own national teams in World Cups they have never agitated for cricketing independence - I don't understand these Celts at all

Cricket is the most English of sports, pushing for Wales's own cricket team by hardcore Welsh nationalists would involve the uncomfortable admission that they like it.

 

[shivfan]

Sound famililar, same situation in England with the kolpack stuff going on, not sure you can fault Leewards for trying to put out their best team, at least Joseph is technically West Indian where as all the Saffies playing kolpack are not English.

Thing is, even with the subsidy from the ECB, the counties still try to make money through the gates, and relegation plays a role in the competition....

Nothing will happen to the Leewards if they win or lose their games. Their fans are more interested in their players putting in good performances, so that they can get selected to the West Indies team. So, the Leewards really have very little to gain in playing Robbie Joseph, if his future's committed to England.

Apparently, the Kolpaks present a different problem for the WI. Even though Wavell HInds, Pedro Collins, and a couple of others (Omari Banks and Corey Collymore?) have retired from WI cricket, they are still playing regional cricket. And then there is Tino Best, who played for the ICL, and is apparently not eligible to play for the WI....

 

[TT Boy]

Any news on KP? Cricinfo says he isn't going to play in the warm-up game.

Looks like Swann is struggling as well. Instant recall for Monty...

 

[BoyBrumby]

DWTA. As a Danish player he should be representing Denmark. England is a foreign legion as it is, and if every half-talented cricketer from outside the Test nations keeps getting drafted into the England squad, cricket will always remain a closed shop.

Folks like Ed Joyce and Eoin Morgan should make Ireland a force to be reckoned with instead of dreaming about Ashes involvement.
Actually, I can't blame the players themselves for it but it does make cricket look like a gentlemen's club closed to anyone of dubious pedigree.

Yeah, it irks me too. Not in a "BNP, **** off immigrants" sort of way, but more because we're effectively punishing non-test cricketing nations who produce players who might be good enough for the highest level.

As you say, I don't think one can blame the players; their best chance of playing tests is by throwing their lot in with us, but I do think some kind of compromise whereby nationals of non-test nations can continue to play ODIs/qualifiers for their native contries whilst remaing eligible for us for tests might be in order.

Scotland and England being the same country I say...hmm fair enough...

but there is actual water between England and Ireland!

If you listen carefully you can actually hear William Wallace rotating rapidly in his grave.

still failing to make sense.

Ireland was part of Britain for longer than Tasmania has been part of Australia, or even Australia has existed. Forgive my ignorance but i never thought Spain invaded the Netherlands, nor the Netherlands invaded England. This of course has no effect on the point that Ireland is not part of Britain anymore, nor does it want to be and they should have their own cricket team regardless of what Richard says

Ish. William of Orange brought a large army with him, but unlike his earlier namesake William The Bastard (so called because he was French) he didn't meet any resistance.

Not to mention Danny Cipriani, stealing the only good Trini qualified rugby player in the World

Not the only one:

Delon Armitage & brother Steffon have both played in the red rose more recently than the tranny-boffing pivot.

 

[Steulen]

still failing to make sense.

Ireland was part of Britain for longer than Tasmania has been part of Australia, or even Australia has existed. Forgive my ignorance but i never thought Spain invaded the Netherlands, nor the Netherlands invaded England . This of course has no effect on the point that Ireland is not part of Britain anymore, nor does it want to be and they should have their own cricket team regardless of what Richard says

In actual fact the whole of The Netherlands was Spanish until 1648, when the Munster Treaty gave birth to the Dutch Republic.

And it was this Republic that was the last successful invader of Britain. I know British history books have it down as a friendly visit by a neighbouring country's army, but it was an invasion, pinpoint precision style: the Dutch navy sailed up the Thames, ousted the king, installed its own government and that was that. After a surprisingly short time it was the accepted British government and both countries went on with their lives.