*Official* England in West Indies

[Richard]

Obviously, but given thats all I've really seen of him, thats all I've got to base my opinions on. And in the highlights package (i.e. at the peak of his abilities), I liked the look of him.

The point is, you might well like the look of me - certainly you would of any really good player (and if you play First-Class cricket, you're really good) - if you saw a highlights package deliberately designed to show the best of me.

 

[Prince EWS]

Fair call actually, I was struggling for names.

TBH, I haven't really had a close look at his (Patel's) career, nor have I seen him bat much, but he averages more in CC than any other available batsman bar Ramprakash (including those already in the side) and he offers a bit with the ball as well.

While I pity any Test team that tries to pass Stuart Broad off as their fourth best bowler, I do think Collingwood and Patel offer enough as a combination to comfortably account for the fifth bowler's duties, and Patel deserves a chance ahead of Bopara on batting record alone anyway.

 

[Richard]

Not really. I'm not talking pecking orders - an out-of-form player is just that. I wouldn't keep Bopara ahead of Bell if Bell goes to his county and scores and scores and scores - but for the time being, Bell has failed for his last six (not one) Tests and doesn't deserve to be in the side.

I honestly wouldn't mind Bell coming back in and batting six again.

 

[Richard]

Richard, I'n afraid that your reasoning is shot through with fallacies.

No-one suggests that weather forecasts are 100% accurate, although they are certainly much more accurate than they are generally reputed to be.

Any prediction about the future is, to a greater or lesser degree, risky and uncertain. Captains might, for instance, set a declaration target in a particular way because of the risk that the opposition's strong batting line-up might get a lot of runs quickly (or might bat solidly but slowly for a long time), or because one of their own bowlers has a niggle and his ability to bowl might be impaired, or because the pitch looks as though it might (or might not) deteriorate. These are the factors you weigh up.

You can't guarantee you'll get it right but you can - and should - rely on the information available to you. Yes captains will occasionally end up with egg on their faces. If there's a 75% chance of rain, it will stay dry 25% of the time. If that 25% chance materialises, was the captain wrong to take account of the 75% chance? Of course not.

The point is captain is guaranteeed to get called "wrong" (if not neccessarily criticised but have it said that they made a wrong decision) whatever they do. If a decision backfires, most people will claim that it was a bad decision.

Obviously you should weigh-up all evidence available to you. But it's better to draw a game you might've won than lose a game you might've drawn. Even if you are 0-1 down, if the Test is only the second of four.

 

[Goughy]

TBH, I haven't really had a close look at his career, nor have I seen him bat much, but he averages more in CC than any other available batsman bar Ramprakash (including those already in the side) and he offers a bit with the ball as well.

While I pity any Test team that tries to pass Stuart Broad off as their fourth best bowler, I do think Collingwood and Patel offer enough as a combination to comfortably account for the fifth bowler's duties, and Patel deserves a chance ahead of Bopara on batting record alone anyway.

Bopara has done well for Essex over the past 2 seasons. He must be high on the pecking order. However, I dont like the look of his batting. I just dont think he is ready.

Interestingly, he has played 10 FC games that have not been for Essex (Eng, Eng A, Eng XI and MCC) and he averages 15 with the bat.

Not sure he is the right guy to be bringing up at this stage of his career.

Its one thing to bring up a guy because they are young and another to bring them up as they had a great season, but you have to be confident that they will succeed otherwise Sam Northeast and Tony Frost would be in the team.

 

[Prince EWS]

Interestingly, he has played 10 FC games that have not been for Essex (Eng, Eng A, Eng XI and MCC) and he averages 15 with the bat.

That is quite interesting actually.

Even just taking into account his good county performances recently, he's only just been on par with Patel. Since the start of the 2006 season, Patel has scored 2552 runs in 36 games @ 53.17 with 8 tons. Bopara's managed 2974 runs in 39 games @ 53.10 with 9 tons. There's really nothing in it and that's ignoring Bopara's failures in high-quality First Class games and in seasons before 2006.

Patel would certainly add more with the ball in the composition of the team too - Bopara wouldn't get a bowl ahead of Collingwood but Patel would if the conditions were right for him.

 

[four_or_six]

Bopara has done well for Essex over the past 2 seasons. He must be high on the pecking order. However, I dont like the look of his batting. I just dont think he is ready.

Interestingly, he has played 10 FC games that have not been for Essex (Eng, Eng A, Eng XI and MCC) and he averages 15 with the bat.

Not sure he is the right guy to be bringing up at this stage of his career.

Its one thing to bring up a guy because they are young and another to bring them up as they had a great season, but you have to be confident that they will succeed otherwise Sam Northeast and Tony Frost would be in the team.

It was interesting to hear Justin Langer last year when asked who the good young batsmen around England were in his opinion... he singled Bopara out for huge amounts of praise. It must have been between Patel and Bopara.

 

[zaremba]

The point is captain is guaranteeed to get called "wrong" (if not neccessarily criticised but have it said that they made a wrong decision) whatever they do. If a decision backfires, most people will claim that it was a bad decision.

Yes but such criticism would be unjustified and so isn't really relevant to the discussion, and certainly shouldn't be relevant to the captain's considerations about timing a declaration.

 

[Richard]

Anyway, Boparas or Patels, Strauss declaring too late and England batting too slowly or not, we are finally underway, wehay. Can't imagine we'll be have no further interruptions, but here's hoping.

Interestingly, a bit of swing for Harmison early on. Maybe there's a bit of a fresher atmosphere around after that tip down.

 

[Richard]

Yes but such criticism would be unjustified and so isn't really relevant to the discussion, and certainly shouldn't be relevant to the captain's considerations about timing a declaration.

Whether criticism is unjustified doesn't change the fact that it often comes from all quarters.

The point is it's essentially a lose-lose situation - your only chance is that circumstances (of whatever type) don't conspire against you.

It's all the more reason why I'd just love to see the loss of playing time taken out of the game. I hate to see people have to take too many chances - there are enough you have to take anyway without the loss of time that should be available damaging your chances further.

 

[four_or_six]

If people had no incentive to score quickly the game could get very slow and T20 will take over the world!

 

[Uppercut]

If people had no incentive to score quickly the game could get very slow and T20 will take over the world!

It just means making the match last 450 overs which you play whenever you can. Noone suggested timeless tests.

 

[zaremba]

It just means making the match last 450 overs which you play whenever you can. Noone suggested timeless tests.

But it will never happen. Never. So let's move on from the idea

 

[Durham_CCC]

How bad does the light get in Antigua ? Just incase England need the last hour.

 

[Richard]

But it will never happen. Never. So let's move on from the idea

I can assure you that in the 1900s they'd have said that third-Umpires behind TV screens (whatever they were) scrutinising decisions to try to avoid Umpiring errors would never have happened either.

However, both that and the removal of loss of playing time would make the game that much better, as have several things introduced down the years, so hopefully both may at some point be used to the best extent.

Anyway so far today there's been some good bowling and some good batting combatting it.

 

[Richard]

If people had no incentive to score quickly the game could get very slow and T20 will take over the world!

People score quickly without the incentive to all the time FTR. Some people just like scoring at 60+ runs per 100 balls, it's in their nature.

Also, not everyone is a scoring-stupidly-quickly freak. Some people don't mind a slow scoring-rate.

 

[four_or_six]

It just means making the match last 450 overs which you play whenever you can. Noone suggested timeless tests.

Ah, understood. I though when Boycott said they should play 6 shorter days in Pakistan with the light problems it was a good idea.

 

[Goughy]

For Rose

http://www.getminted.com/sports/sports/images/stories/this is anfield.jpg

 

[Richard]

Ah, understood. I though when Boycott said they should play 6 shorter days in Pakistan with the light problems it was a good idea.

That isn't neccessarily a bad idea either.

Strange decision to give runs there.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah England have been just a touch unlucky not to get one of them out. Could be one of those days where when it's heading for the pads the batsman nicks it and when it's heading to the keeper he misses it.