Goocheslamb
Banned
Ok i know he had a amazing period between 1990-1994, but what about the period between 1975-1989. Thats 14 long years. He only managed around 8 centuries with a average of 36 during those 14 long years.
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Is Graham Gooch over rated?
- Thread starter Goocheslamb
- Start date
Goocheslamb
Banned
^ check out the figures your self
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Truth was Gooch was actually a damn good batsman between 1978 and 1988 - averaged 39 in that time. Gooch suffers for the fact he was brought in in 1975 aged 21 and played on a sticky. Someone - might've been Lillee - commented that he knew Gooch was going to be damn good after he'd nicked him off on debut because he said most batsmen would never have got anywhere near that particular ball. He also suffers for his infamous 1989 when Terry Alderman sorted him (and everyone else who batted for England that summer - and there were LOTS of them) out.
The best thing is that Gooch learnt the lessons of 1989 and from 1990 to 1994 put them into practice in way far, far more devastating than anyone in the modern era has done at such an advanced age. Gooch was, by a fair distance, the best batsman in The World between the ages of 36 and 40. That is quite some achievement.
But as I say, it's far from his only one. Many times between 1978 and 1988 he was the only England batsman to stand-up and really punch back against the West Indian seamers of Roberts, Holding, Garner, Croft, Marshall, Walsh, Patterson, Bishop, Ambrose and Benjamin. Only Moseley ever inflicted pain on him, and only once - Patterson in '86 - did he ever fear for his wellbeing. Geoff Boycott, Peter Willey, Allan Lamb and Robin Smith matched his fearlessness, but Boycott was nearly 40 years old himself by that time and not the force he once was; Willey was never more than a gutsy competitor; and Lamb and Smith were both suspect against spin in a way Gooch never was. So Gooch trumps them all comfortably.
If Gooch had truly fulfilled his potential - averaged, say, 43-44 - between '78 and '88 and not had to suffer that torrid '75 introduction, then he'd probably be acknowledged not far short of the Huttons, Comptons, Barringtons, Mays, Dexters, Cowdreys and Boycotts. As it is, he was just a damn good opener for most of his career and a sensationally brilliant one (at an age precious few have ever been sensationally brilliant) for 4 years at the start of the 1990s. In that time he played an innings which could quite conceivably be the second-greatest ever played (I'll never be able to look past Bradman's 254 where every shot went exactly where he aimed as the greatest).
I think Gooch can look back on his career with considerable pride. There's been no England batsman better in the last 30 years in my book, though Gower was of course better to watch. Well, as far as attractiveness of stroke is concerned, anyway. In my book, it doesn't come too much more thrilling than seeing someone punch back against top-class seam bowling.
The best thing is that Gooch learnt the lessons of 1989 and from 1990 to 1994 put them into practice in way far, far more devastating than anyone in the modern era has done at such an advanced age. Gooch was, by a fair distance, the best batsman in The World between the ages of 36 and 40. That is quite some achievement.
But as I say, it's far from his only one. Many times between 1978 and 1988 he was the only England batsman to stand-up and really punch back against the West Indian seamers of Roberts, Holding, Garner, Croft, Marshall, Walsh, Patterson, Bishop, Ambrose and Benjamin. Only Moseley ever inflicted pain on him, and only once - Patterson in '86 - did he ever fear for his wellbeing. Geoff Boycott, Peter Willey, Allan Lamb and Robin Smith matched his fearlessness, but Boycott was nearly 40 years old himself by that time and not the force he once was; Willey was never more than a gutsy competitor; and Lamb and Smith were both suspect against spin in a way Gooch never was. So Gooch trumps them all comfortably.
If Gooch had truly fulfilled his potential - averaged, say, 43-44 - between '78 and '88 and not had to suffer that torrid '75 introduction, then he'd probably be acknowledged not far short of the Huttons, Comptons, Barringtons, Mays, Dexters, Cowdreys and Boycotts. As it is, he was just a damn good opener for most of his career and a sensationally brilliant one (at an age precious few have ever been sensationally brilliant) for 4 years at the start of the 1990s. In that time he played an innings which could quite conceivably be the second-greatest ever played (I'll never be able to look past Bradman's 254 where every shot went exactly where he aimed as the greatest).
I think Gooch can look back on his career with considerable pride. There's been no England batsman better in the last 30 years in my book, though Gower was of course better to watch. Well, as far as attractiveness of stroke is concerned, anyway. In my book, it doesn't come too much more thrilling than seeing someone punch back against top-class seam bowling.
Bouncer
State Regular
I agree with Richard...Gooch was amazing player...one heck of a player VS fast bowlers and if it was not for the ban he suffered from 82 -- 85, that cost him possibly 3 of his golden years his record would have looked pretty amazing.
Gooch till 1982 had scored 2540 test runs he then while he was suffering from ban, David gower scored 2127 runs in that time period ( from gooch's last test before ban till gooch's return), now if gooch was not suffering from that ban, it can be argued that he would have scored about the same number of runs considering that before the ban he was one of the best player against west indies and was at top of his game and this time of ban involved 14 games with weak indian team, gooch scored 1725 runs in his career against them so it is very fair to assume that he would have done very well in those 14 (the ones that he missed) too.
Considering all these factors it can be assumed that he would have scored overall test aggregate of 8900 + 2100 = 11000 test runs. Now that answers your question if Gooch was overrated or not?
Gooch till 1982 had scored 2540 test runs he then while he was suffering from ban, David gower scored 2127 runs in that time period ( from gooch's last test before ban till gooch's return), now if gooch was not suffering from that ban, it can be argued that he would have scored about the same number of runs considering that before the ban he was one of the best player against west indies and was at top of his game and this time of ban involved 14 games with weak indian team, gooch scored 1725 runs in his career against them so it is very fair to assume that he would have done very well in those 14 (the ones that he missed) too.
Considering all these factors it can be assumed that he would have scored overall test aggregate of 8900 + 2100 = 11000 test runs. Now that answers your question if Gooch was overrated or not?
JBH001
International Regular
Top post, Rich.
Am especially in agreement with this:
Am especially in agreement with this:
IMO Gooch is arguably under-rated.
ozone
First Class Debutant
Yea, agree with whats being said, Gooch is more under-rated than over-rated. Without doubt, Englands most significant batsman in the past 30 years, although it is fair to say that some others (thinking mainly of Gower, Thorpe and Pietersen) had more natural ability, and it remains to be seen whether Pietersen will go on to be a more important player.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Good post from Richard above.
Shame he decided to take the money from the Rebel tour, as that counts against the man himself. He was an exceptional batsman to my mind though.
Shame he decided to take the money from the Rebel tour, as that counts against the man himself. He was an exceptional batsman to my mind though.
archie mac
International Coach
I have no problem with him taking the money, cricketers only have a certain amount of time to make money.
Business is a different thing stockbrokers can still trade 20 years later
archie mac
International Coach
Clever
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
Remember hearing from some commentator that he was trying to call Gooch some time ago and he kept getting his voicemail. The voicemail message was something along the lines of "Sorry, I'm out. Probably LBW to Terry Alderman."
Speaks volumes of the man tbh.
Speaks volumes of the man tbh.
Jakester1288
International Regular
I am in agreement with Richard. Never got to see him play, seeing as I was born in 1995, but from all I have read/heard, he was a fine player.
Top_Cat
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Seem to remember him being out caught at short mid-mid more often than LBW. Not sure without checking, though. Agreed though, the fact that gag would even make sense to people who hear it now so long after the fact tells you something too.
Agreed that he is pretty under-rated, though. His ton in Adelaide in 1991 was absolutely top-shelf.
archie mac
International Coach
No; Jessop
