Kallis Vs Sobers

[fredfertang]

The Wisden poll is an excellent call Mr Z and an interesting one in the light of some of the threads that have appeared on CW

As you say the "electorate" was 100 - Bradman was voted for by all 100 and Sobers 90 - no one else got close to those two - Jack Hobbs was way back in 3rd with 30 - of the other "great all rounders" it was

Hadlee 13
Imran 13
Botham 9
Kapil 5

and Keith Miller? - perhaps surprisingly none at all

 

[Richard]

Sobers must also have been an accomplished amateur surgeon - he was born with an extra finger on each hand and removed the surplus digits himself!

I thought they were removed at birth.

 

[Richard]

I thought spin bowling was "mostly useless" during that period?

Not in India. Spin has only fairly rarely been mostly useless in India.

 

[Precambrian]

Sobers did more and he did it better.

No, Kallis did much much much more than Sobers did, and arguably in better form.

 

[fredfertang]

I thought they were removed at birth.

Not according to the man himself - he says he got rid of one at about 11/12 using a length of catgut and a sharp tug and the other at 14/15 using a knife - it does seem rather extraordinary but I can't see why he'd lie about it

 

[Precambrian]

Not in India. Spin has only fairly rarely been mostly useless in India.

fairly, rarely and mostly?

Not being a pedant, but I didn't understand what it meant in the end. Sorry.

 

[Richard]

It's been fairly rare for spin in India to fit the description "mostly useless". There's obviously been isolated Tests here and there on pitches that have offered nothing to any bowler, but more Indian Test pitches than not down the years tended to turn, if not always all through the match.

 

[Precambrian]

Sobers, its closer than some may expect, but its still an easy choice. Nothing against Kallis of course, he is a giant (literally and figuratively).

Its certainly a more worthy debate than Sobers v Miller or Sobers v Imran though.



This is a great point, zaremba.

Not another of the everything's gold in black and white worshippers. Seriously???

 

[Richard]

Not according to the man himself - he says he got rid of one at about 11/12 using a length of catgut and a sharp tug and the other at 14/15 using a knife - it does seem rather extraordinary but I can't see why he'd lie about it

And what's more, not sure why on Earth he'd want to get rid of them. Surely he was playing cricket from a very early age - surely he'd realise that a sixth finger on the bowling hand (and possibly on the bat on both hands) would be a huge advantage?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The Wisden poll is an excellent call Mr Z and an interesting one in the light of some of the threads that have appeared on CW

As you say the "electorate" was 100 - Bradman was voted for by all 100 and Sobers 90 - no one else got close to those two - Jack Hobbs was way back in 3rd with 30 - of the other "great all rounders" it was

Hadlee 13
Imran 13
Botham 9
Kapil 5

and Keith Miller? - perhaps surprisingly none at all

The Wisden Poll has been discussed before. The ten that didn't vote for Sobers did so not because they don't rate him but because they knew he was bound to finish second and they wanted to boost the tally of their other favourite players.. Of course no one wanted to be seen not to vote for the Don.

 

[Precambrian]

It's been fairly rare for spin in India to fit the description "mostly useless". There's obviously been isolated Tests here and there on pitches that have offered nothing to any bowler, but more Indian Test pitches than not down the years tended to turn, if not always all through the match.

The perception has come from India relying on spinners more in the course of history. The truth is Indian pitches have ranged from everything to everything. But perception and pre conceived bias sees only the results they want to. Indian pitches have been greentops, eggheads, dustbowls, mysterious, etc etc. It is very hard to find a common theme.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

And what's more, not sure why on Earth he'd want to get rid of them. Surely he was playing cricket from a very early age - surely he'd realise that a sixth finger on the bowling hand (and possibly on the bat on both hands) would be a huge advantage?

I've seen people with these so called extra fingers and it's usually little more than a tiny stub which is of no help in any walk of life - except a circus freak show.

 

[JBH001]

Not another of the everything's gold in black and white worshippers. Seriously???

Never been a 'black and white' merchant. But that does not disguise the fact that sometimes there are black and whites, and talking about 'greys' for the sake of it merely serves to cloud what is essentially a clear cut issue. Not that you are being successful where that is concerned either.

 

[Richard]

I imagine Precamb meant, by that post, that you are someone who favours what appears these days on our screens in black-and-white. May be wrong.

 

[Precambrian]

I imagine Precamb meant, by that post, that you are someone who favours what appears these days on our screens in black-and-white. May be wrong.

Yeah. Was it too plain to be understood?

 

[JBH001]

Jeez, spare me the CW smart alec bull****.

Time to leave this asinine little thread.

 

[Precambrian]

Jeez, spare me the CW smart alec bull****.

Time to leave this asinine little thread.

Oh please don't. Pleaaseeee....

 

[0RI0N]

Wouldn't Sobers vs Imran have been a better poll?
Imran > Kallis as allrounders go.

 

[Evermind]

Wouldn't Sobers vs Imran have been a better poll?
Imran > Kallis as allrounders go.

I think this is a better poll because they're both essentially batting all-rounders.

Though Kallis' bowling average is better than Flintoff's - a supposed "bowling" all-rounder. Not trying to take a shot, just remarking.

 

[nightprowler10]

Pretty sure we've had an incredibly lengthy debate on Imran vs Sobers in the past.