*Official* England in West Indies

[Precambrian]

I suppose there will be some solace in England being skittled by a children's TV character this afternoon. Especially if the Barmy Army can be persuaded to hum the theme tune every time he takes a wicket.

Indeed! That tune is so freakinly catchy. I am going to put it as mobile ringtone.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Maybe that's true, but they scored remarkably slowly all day. Which may have been the right thing to do, but it makes the draw favourite, when yesterday an England loss seemed quite comfortably the likeliest outcome. In terms of what the West Indies can take from this match- the spirit they showed, the quality of their batting- maybe today was better, but in terms of their position in the match, they're worse off than they were yesterday.

I'm not sure that the draw is the overwhelming favourite. I can see what Gayle was trying to do, and I agree with it. It's the sort of pitch and outfield that you're not going to get value for shots really, and England bowled well generally. There was no need to risk extravagance, when the intention was to build as large a lead as possible, knowing that there were 3 days left. Gayle admitted after that the goal was to keep wickets in hand.

With patience and hard work, West Indies would hope to bat most of the morning session on day four and expand the lead to as to close to 100 as possible. Then there are 5 sessions left for what will be an intriguing, and most likely lowscoring, final half of the match. And should England start that half behind by 100, West Indies would be in control I'd say.

 

[wpdavid]

I'm not sure that the draw is the overwhelming favourite. I can see what Gayle was trying to do, and I agree with it. It's the sort of pitch and outfield that you're not going to get value for shots really, and England bowled well generally. There was no need to risk extravagance, when the intention was to build as large a lead as possible, knowing that there were 3 days left. Gayle admitted after that the goal was to keep wickets in hand.

With patience and hard work, West Indies would hope to bat most of the morning session on day four and expand the lead to as to close to 100 as possible. Then there are 5 sessions left for what will be an intriguing, and most likely lowscoring, final half of the match. And should England start that half behind by 100, West Indies would be in control I'd say.

All true. England were better on Day 3 than Day 2, but Ramdin & Nash's partnership was crucial. Even if the final 3 wickets fall in the first half hour, England will still be batting knowing that it's almost impossible for them to set the agenda for the rest of the game. They simply won't be able to score quickly enough to set a target, unless KP does something extraordinary. WI, otoh, will fancy chasing anything up to 250 in the final two sessions, especially if Gayle bats for a couple of hours or so.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm not sure that the draw is the overwhelming favourite. I can see what Gayle was trying to do, and I agree with it. It's the sort of pitch and outfield that you're not going to get value for shots really, and England bowled well generally. There was no need to risk extravagance, when the intention was to build as large a lead as possible, knowing that there were 3 days left. Gayle admitted after that the goal was to keep wickets in hand.

With patience and hard work, West Indies would hope to bat most of the morning session on day four and expand the lead to as to close to 100 as possible. Then there are 5 sessions left for what will be an intriguing, and most likely lowscoring, final half of the match. And should England start that half behind by 100, West Indies would be in control I'd say.

Yeah, he's made an England win extremely unlikely, while keeping the possibility of a West Indian win open. Which was quite possibly the right thing to do. If they do get a lead of 100 and England start batting at lunch, a lot depends on what happens to the pitch- it could get lower and slower and difficult to take wickets on, or it could really break up and force a result. A go-slow from England would be very ill-advised IMO- the point of their run scoring should be to ensure that if the pitch gets really bad it's the West Indies who have a few runs to knock off on it.

If England take the last three wickets pretty cheaply, the match gets really interesting, with the advantage of a 50~ run lead partially negated by the West Indies having to bat last. The thing I'm most concerned about as a temporary England supporter is the form of Benn in contrast with that of Monty. Benn could quite conceivably take them apart this afternoon, but if England were to post something reasonably defendable (say, 250 with a lead of 200) it's difficult to see Monty doing something similar. At a stage where spinners look set to come into the game, Benn's performance over Monty is the reason West Indies are such firm favourites to win- if a result does happen.

Incidentally, the bookies have the draw as pretty firm favourite.

 

[Prince EWS]

Incidentally, the bookies have the draw as pretty firm favourite.

Which is why I put a bet on the West Indies about three hours ago..

 

[Uppercut]

Which is why I put a bet on the West Indies about three hours ago..

Haha, that's a pretty good call for mine. The bookies have a tendency to overestimate the chance of a draw IMO. I don't expect the Windies to win, but 3.40 looks pretty tasty.

 

[Athlai]

England will be lucky to have a lead of more than 150 by the end of tomorrow's play.

 

[wpdavid]

If England take the last three wickets pretty cheaply, the match gets really interesting, with the advantage of a 50~ run lead partially negated by the West Indies having to bat last. The thing I'm most concerned about as a temporary England supporter is the form of Benn in contrast with that of Monty. Benn could quite conceivably take them apart this afternoon, but if England were to post something reasonably defendable (say, 250 with a lead of 200) it's difficult to see Monty doing something similar. At a stage where spinners look set to come into the game, Benn's performance over Monty is the reason West Indies are such firm favourites to win- if a result does happen.

Yup, although England did help by playing Benn quite appallingly on Day 1. However, if Benn & Panesar repeat their 1st innings performances over the next 2 days, it'll be virtually impossible to justify MP's continued presence. It's one thing having the best players of spin on the planet chase down that total in the 1st Indian test, but if Panesar again fails to make any sort of impact in a 4th innings with helpful conditions, then there is no point whatsoever in him being in the side. Presumably one or two of the Engish CWers will be watching the next two days with mixed feelings.

My other ponderings this morning concerned Broad. He clearly wouldn't merit a place in a four-man attack, but he suggested yesterday that he can contrinute enough to a five-man one, especially if he continues to improve. It isn't his fault that three of the others contributed so little.

 

[Uppercut]

My other ponderings this morning concerned Broad. He clearly wouldn't merit a place in a four-man attack, but he suggested yesterday that he can contrinute enough to a five-man one, especially if he continues to improve. It isn't his fault that three of the others contributed so little.

I'm not that bothered by any of them apart from Panesar tbh. Sidebottom's been ineffective but he hasn't bowled terribly- 24 overs for 35 runs is never going to lose you a game. Harmison was unlucky not to have Sarwan early, and despite being badly down on pace he hasn't went for runs like he normally does (and was always more likely to take a wicket than Sidebottom). Broad improved my opinon of him quite a bit. Those were really, really tough conditions for fast bowling yesterday- a ridiculously hot day on a very slow pitch against an obdurate batting lineup- and the quicks successfully put them under a lot of pressure. Which Monty promptly released from the other end.

 

[wpdavid]

I don't understand why they're not bowling round the wicket at the left-handers on this pitch.

EDIT
And sure enough ...

4 for Broad now. And we needed that very badly indeed.

 

[Rebecca]

I'm not that bothered by any of them apart from Panesar tbh. Sidebottom's been ineffective but he hasn't bowled terribly- 24 overs for 35 runs is never going to lose you a game. Harmison was unlucky not to have Sarwan early, and despite being badly down on pace he hasn't went for runs like he normally does (and was always more likely to take a wicket than Sidebottom). Broad improved my opinon of him quite a bit. Those were really, really tough conditions for fast bowling yesterday- a ridiculously hot day on a very slow pitch against an obdurate batting lineup- and the quicks successfully put them under a lot of pressure. Which Monty promptly released from the other end.

Adil Rashid must soon become an option albeit a more defensive one than Monty, who is probably still the better bowler. With Broad and Rashid in the bowling attack we will finally bat as deep as South Africa!

 

[ozone]

Adil Rashid must soon become an option albeit a more defensive one than Monty, who is probably still the better bowler. With Broad and Rashid in the bowling attack we will finally bat as deep as South Africa!

Gah, horrible logic. Alright, its important to have some batting ability down the order, but the bowlers should be there to take wickets, and not picked for there batting ability.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Rashid isn't a defensive option and he certainly can't be any more negative than Monty 'toothlessness personified' Panesar.

Don't think there'll be an ideal opportunity to play Rashid anytime soon, unless England somehow win this series with a game to spare.

 

[Rebecca]

Do you think Panesar will be used in the Ashes?

 

[Scaly piscine]

It's incredibly obvious to me that Panesar should not be playing as a lone spinner, but he still is - so I can't put myself in the situation of the brain-dead selectors.

 

[cowboysfan]

lets hope some english fans are satisfied with broad and not call for his head if he fails in his next game.

 

[Scaly piscine]

lets hope some english fans are satisfied with broad and not call for his head if he fails in his next game.

So in your knee-jerk reaction you're saying that others should not have a knee-jerk reaction if he fails in the next Test?

Worth noting that he still averages over 40 with the ball and he was dire merely two days ago.

 

[cowboysfan]

So in your knee-jerk reaction you're saying that others should not have a knee-jerk reaction if he fails in the next Test?

Worth noting that he still averages over 40 with the ball and he was dire merely two days ago.

i think broad will be a very good bowler for england and they need him for the ashes.he is still very young so dropping him for any matches leading up to the ashes is not a good idea.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Broad isn't a Test class bowler, he's not quick and doesn't move it.

On a slow pitch like this it doesn't matter so much because pace/bounce is nullified and thicker edges very rarely carry. So all the seamers are somewhat reduced to just plodding it straightish on a length and waiting for mistakes.

 

[wpdavid]

Classic case of Flintoff being overbowled in a situation where you'd hope that any of England's quicks could do the job.