**Official** New Zealand in Australia

[Athlai]

I like that order TBH.

 

[Polo23]

You do realise you shattered any credibility your argument had by relying on Ryder averaging 50 against Bangladesh as evidence that everything is going fine and dandy?

But seriously, you made the point nicely in your own article. They need to bat in the positions that are best suited to the team, and they're not right now. I don't think Ryder has ever played at number 3, and is only really batting there right now because the management can't find anywhere else for him. Taylor shouldn't really be batting any higher than number 5 at this stage of his career. I know he's technically the most experienced member of our batting lineup, but he's just not suited to it. And while both have shown an ability to hang around, neither has shown the inclination to do it with any regularity, or to exercise any common sense while batting. Indeed, Taylor has exhibited a marked reduction in his maturity at the crease since the start of the England series, and both tossed their wickets away in each innings against NSW. And McCullum should move back down the order.

3 Fulton
4 Ryder
5 Taylor
6 Flynn
7 McCullum

Then at least the fragility of our openers and the unpredictability of our middle order is at least partly broken up by a couple of steady hands in Flynn and Fulton.

So Ryder averaging 50 against Bangladesh means everything is doom and gloom? I think you just shattered all of your credibility, considering you need to put words in my mouth to further your argument. Never did I say everything was fine and dandy.

Again, you are wrong. Ryder has batted at 3 for New Zealand A for his whole A team career, and has done fantastically well, and anyway, I said they need to bat in their best positions FOR THE TEAM. Currently Ryder batting at 3, and Taylor 4 is the best for the team.

I wouldnt mind seeing Fulton come in at 3, and have everyone move down the order but to think Fulton is going to suddenly make the batting lineup start firing is ridiculous. He has a worse test record than everyone else in the top order. Moving Taylor from 4, to 5 isn't going to change anything, Taylor is good enough to bat at 4 and he should bat at number 4, he needs to make the position his own and he needs to be perservered with.

It seems to me you think the batting lineup should just magically fire consistently despite it being incredibly young and inexperienced. These guys are going to need time to adjust to test match cricket, shuffling them around and making changes isnt going to help things. They have easily shown enough that they could be very good test match batsmen.

That lineup you named leaves no room for Oram also.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I like that order TBH.

Agree With The Athlai

 

[Flem274*]

Love it when new kiwi optimists charge against the eternal negativity of Bahnz. They have no idea what they're dealing with.

 

[Zinzan]

I think it's just rain on Day 1, then fine for the remainder of the Test.

You get used to it up here in Brisbane. Nothing breaks the drought like an international match.

Truth be-known, its actually my fault. Whenever I book an annual-leave day off work to watch some test cricket - it rains, so you can blame me. Damn it !%#$^&

 

[Bahnz]

So Ryder averaging 50 against Bangladesh means everything is doom and gloom? I think you just shattered all of your credibility, considering you need to put words in my mouth to further your argument. Never did I say everything was fine and dandy.

Again, you are wrong. Ryder has batted at 3 for New Zealand A for his whole A team career, and has done fantastically well, and anyway, I said they need to bat in their best positions FOR THE TEAM. Currently Ryder batting at 3, and Taylor 4 is the best for the team.

I wouldnt mind seeing Fulton come in at 3, and have everyone move down the order but to think Fulton is going to suddenly make the batting lineup start firing is ridiculous. He has a worse test record than everyone else in the top order. Moving Taylor from 4, to 5 isn't going to change anything, Taylor is good enough to bat at 4 and he should bat at number 4, he needs to make the position his own and he needs to be perservered with.

It seems to me you think the batting lineup should just magically fire consistently despite it being incredibly young and inexperienced. These guys are going to need time to adjust to test match cricket, shuffling them around and making changes isnt going to help things. They have easily shown enough that they could be very good test match batsmen.

That lineup you named leaves no room for Oram also.

I'm not suggesting Fulton will suddenly make everything work fine. I'm suggesting that by bringing him into the lineup and by moving Daniel Flynn above Brendon McCullum, the batting lineup is much more nicely balanced between hitters and grinders. Nor am I expecting the batting lineup to fire consistently. What I do expect, though is half the top order to not throw their wickets away with indisciplined overly aggressive shots, which is what players like Taylor and McCullum have been doing for some time, and for which Ryder also has a reputation. Until they learn to do otherwise, you can't have them all batting in a clump, we'll just collapse far too often. As for Ryder averaging 50, I never said it meant doom and gloom, nor was I saying that a young number 3 who averages 50 isn't a good sign. I was saying that averaging 50 in 2 matches both against Bangladesh means precisely nothing, especially when it comes to playing against a team like Australia

Incidentally, and more out of curiosity than anything, when has Jesse Ryder batted at no.3? The only incidence I can find of it is 2 innings against SLA, where he made 20 and 60 odd.

 

[howardj]

Truth be-known, its actually my fault. Whenever I book an annual-leave day off work to watch some test cricket - it rains, so you can blame me. Damn it !%#$^&

Yeah, me too.

Tossing up whether to take THursday or Friday off at this stage.

Probably the latter, given the forecast.

 

[Polo23]

I'm not suggesting Fulton will suddenly make everything work fine. I'm suggesting that by bringing him into the lineup and by moving Daniel Flynn above Brendon McCullum, the batting lineup is much more nicely balanced between hitters and grinders. Nor am I expecting the batting lineup to fire consistently. What I do expect, though is half the top order to not throw their wickets away with indisciplined overly aggressive shots, which is what players like Taylor and McCullum have been doing for some time, and for which Ryder also has a reputation. Until they learn to do otherwise, you can't have them all batting in a clump, we'll just collapse far too often. As for Ryder averaging 50, I never said it meant doom and gloom, nor was I saying that a young number 3 who averages 50 isn't a good sign. I was saying that averaging 50 in 2 matches both against Bangladesh means precisely nothing, especially when it comes to playing against a team like Australia

Incidentally, and more out of curiosity than anything, when has Jesse Ryder batted at no.3? The only incidence I can find of it is 2 innings against SLA, where he made 20 and 60 odd.

I agree McCullum shouldnt be batting at number 5. But I have no problem with Ryder at 3, and Taylor at 4. They have both batted there consistently in the past and performed. Since when did Ryder have a reputation of throwing his wicket away? He doesnt have that reputation at all, atleast not at FC level. Where did you get that from?

Of course Ryder averaging 50 against Bangladesh doesnt make him a world beater, I never said it did. I just don't understand how Ryder averaging 50 and Taylor being arguably our best test batsman over the last year means we drastically need to improve. On a whole, the batting needs to perform a lot better, most importantly we need to develop a decent opening combination and we need to start performing consistently. Why you picked out a guy who has played 2 tests, and arguably our best batsman to ridicule I have no idea.

 

[Polo23]

Love it when new kiwi optimists charge against the eternal negativity of Bahnz. They have no idea what they're dealing with.

And funnily enough that quote in your sig was directed at me!!!

 

[Bahnz]

I agree McCullum shouldnt be batting at number 5. But I have no problem with Ryder at 3, and Taylor at 4. They have both batted there consistently in the past and performed. Since when did Ryder have a reputation of throwing his wicket away? He doesnt have that reputation at all, atleast not at FC level. Where did you get that from?

Of course Ryder averaging 50 against Bangladesh doesnt make him a world beater, I never said it did. I just don't understand how Ryder averaging 50 and Taylor being arguably our best test batsman over the last year means we drastically need to improve. On a whole, the batting needs to perform a lot better, most importantly we need to develop a decent opening combination and we need to start performing consistently. Why you picked out a guy who has played 2 tests, and arguably our best batsman to ridicule I have no idea.

He absolutely has a reputation for tossing away his wicket. A couple of seasons ago he practically did nothing but make flashy 20's and 30's before letting his aggression get the better of him.

We drastically need to improve because our batting lineup is currently barely able to post 250 against teams like Bangladesh and NSW C. And I'm not ridiculing Ryder and Taylor. I think they're tremendously talented batsmen. But I think they're batting out of position, and are too prone to being aggressive when the situation calls for prudence. Taylor in particular has done quite badly since he was shifted up to number 4. I don't think it's any coincidence that his one quality knock (the 150 no) came when he had a lot more time than usual before coming out to bat. One day he will evolve in to the type of batsman who can walk out in the first 15 or 20 overs and be in total command, but right now he seems ill suited to the job, and should be left a bit lower down the order until he gets a bit more experience. Fulton, although having played on the international scene for barely as long as Taylor has had nearly a decade of experience of batting at the very top of the order in first class cricket and has been very good at it. New Zealand should take advantage of that.

 

[Perm]

National bias both ways, methinks.

Yup, that's what I meant.

 

[four_or_six]

Watto seems quite chilled.

Will be interesting to see what they do, if it really is two from Symonds/Watson/Krezja to play.

 

[Furball]

Question to the New Zealanders:

If you were to select for a North Island v South Island FC match, who would be in your side?

 

[S.P. Fleming]

North Island:
1. Matthew Bell (Wellington)
2. Tim McIntosh (Auckland)
3. Jesse Ryder (Wellington)
4. Ross Taylor (Auckland)
5. Greg Hay (Auckland)
6. Jacob Oram (Central Districts)
7. Bevan Griggs (Central Districts) +
8. Daniel Vettori ( Northern Districts)
9. Kyle Mills (Auckland)
10. Tim Southee (Northern Districts)
11. Chris Martin (Auckland

notable ommisions:
- Matthew Sinclair
- Reece Young
- Grant Elliott
- Jeetan Patel
- Iain O' brien
- Mark Gillespie
- Kane Williamson (wat a debut!)
- James Marshall

I had a crack but im heaps tired so probs left out a lot. Did not consider Scott Styris as he cant play tests

 

[Somerset]

Whats Jamie How done wrong to miss selection there? Also surprised to see you select Griggs ahead of Hopkins, or even McGlashan.

And if Daniel Flynn can make the Black Caps' XI its a bit harsh to leave him out of the North Island side.

 

[Athlai]

South Island

M Papps
A Redmond
P Fulton
N Broom
B McCullum (wk) (c)
C Anderson
N McCullum
B Hiini
Wagner
I Butler
L Burtt

That was a difficult team to make.

 

[Athlai]

Whats Jamie How done wrong to miss selection there? Also surprised to see Griggs selected ahead of Hopkins, or even McGlashan.

Clearly How was just forgotten, at least I hope that is the case.

 

[Somerset]

South Island

M Papps
A Redmond
P Fulton
N Broom
B McCullum (wk) (c)
C Anderson
N McCullum
B Hiini
Wagner
I Butler
L Burtt

That was a difficult team to make.

A few years ago with all the Canterbury stars (Cairns, Harris, McMillan, Fleming, Astle, Bond, etc) it would basically have consisted of the majority of the Black Caps' main side. To see the likes of Wagner, Hiini, Burtt, etc not only in the Canterbury side but in a theoretical South Island XI just goes to show how low on firepower the Cantabs' are now.

 

[Polo23]

Question to the New Zealanders:

If you were to select for a North Island v South Island FC match, who would be in your side?

Whatever happened to those games? I always enjoyed watching that One Dayer on TV..only lasted a couple of years though.

North Island

Martin Guptill (Auck)
Jamie How (Well)
Matthew Sinclair (CD)
Jesse Ryder (Well)
Ross Taylor (CD)
Jacob Oram (CD)
BJ Watling+ (ND)
James Franklin (Well)
Daniel Vettori (ND)
Iain O'Brien (Well)
Chris Martin (Auck)

Unlucky to miss out:

Tim Southee
Kyle Mills
Mark Gillespie
James Marshall
Greg Hay
Grant Elliott
Matthew Bell
Daniel Flynn
Rob Nicol

South Island

Michael Papps (Cant)
Aaron Redmond (Ota)
Peter Fulton (Cant)
Greg Todd (Ota)
Neil Broom (Ota)
Corey Anderson (Cant)
Brendon McCullum+ (Ota)
Nathan McCullum (Ota)
Brandon Hiini (Cant)
Michael Davidson (Cant)
Leighton Burtt (Cant)

Unlucky to miss out:

Kruger Van Wyk
James McMillan
Derek De Boorder
Craig Cumming

 

[Athlai]

Brendon McCullum hard done by in your team Polo!