***Official*** South Africa in England

[BoyBrumby]

Gee our batting doesn't get any better, does it. Only caught glimpses this afternoon, but Cook, Vaughan & Bell all need public floggings for their dismissals, and the KP throws it away when SA were there for the taking. Barring something senstional over the next 24 hours, this series is looking terminal for captain and, quite possibly, the coach who has presided over the complacency and stupidity that has developed over the last year and a bit.

Said in the paper yesterday that Big Dunc presided over 1 home series defeat in 14 attempts; if this goes south (and it looks v likely from here) it'll be 2 in 4 for Moores and his team hasn't faced Oz yet.

He's Steve McClaren of cricket: a mediocre Englishman who spouts inane management speak platitudes undoing the good work of an under-appreciated foreigner who the press never really got. Nice bloke, but out of his depth.

 

[Richard]

Moores at least had been a good domestic coach, more than McClaren had.

McLaren has always been a natural number-two; maybe Moores is a natural at the lower levels.

That said, had DF been in charge I'd not want to confidently opine that anything of the past year would have been enormously different.

 

[Uppercut]

He's Steve McClaren of cricket: a mediocre Englishman who spouts inane management speak platitudes undoing the good work of an under-appreciated foreigner who the press never really got. Nice bloke, but out of his depth.

Precisely. The English public didn't realise 3 consecutive quarter finals was an excellent showing with the players they had. They also didn't realise that losing a series away to a completely legendary cricket team and a poor world cup showing were blips on the record of a man who made England the 2nd best (and arguably even the best) team in the world in 2005.

 

[grecian]

Said in the paper yesterday that Big Dunc presided over 1 home series defeat in 14 attempts; if this goes south (and it looks v likely from here) it'll be 2 in 4 for Moores and his team hasn't faced Oz yet.

He's Steve McClaren of cricket: a mediocre Englishman who spouts inane management speak platitudes undoing the good work of an under-appreciated foreigner who the press never really got. Nice bloke, but out of his depth.

Yep, the similarities are very marked, and just goes to show our press are xenophobic and unappreciative of success because they bizarrely think we should be winning everything, anyway.

Very odd, and there are a massive amount of fan's that feel the same way, still can't work out if the press cause this strange phenomenon or reflect it. Bit of both maybe.

The reason the sane supporters have giving up now, is because this is all so familiar. England seem to delight in giving us hope before they snatch it away ignominiously.

Of course we're still hoping against hope, but we're steeling ourselves for the inevitable....

 

[gio]

I've been less than impressed with Moores, but he's relatively new to the job, so I'd give him a wee while yet. England must realise that on paper, this is not a bad side. The batsman have made runs in the past, and bowlers show considerable heart and on their day they can be match winners. If you add Jones and a developed Broad into that side, then it certainly looks competitive in world terms.

England are low on confidence and form, and up against a SA side that is the exact oppposite. The most frustrating thing about England this summer has been their mental attitude. Maybe England should introduce IQ tests before selecting a player.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Maybe England should introduce IQ tests before selecting a player.

Nah. Pietersen HAS to play.

 

[grecian]

England should introduce IQ tests before selecting a player.

Blimey that would of stopped our greatest all-rounder ever getting a game

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Broad > Flintoff with the bat.

DWTA. Out to Plunkett for a duck for Notts.

 

[aussie]

Think some are being unfairly harsh on Moores. Yes i agree he doesn't seem like an innovative/inspiration coach like a Fletcher or Wright. But i don't think outside dropping Hoggard in NZ & probably having a hand in Pattinson's selection he has been pretty ok to me,

The players have to suffer the bulk of criticism since they aren't producing consistently enough especially in the test side. He easily though seems better @ identifying the better ODI players the Fletcher ever was.

 

[grecian]

He easily though seems better @ identifying the better ODI players the Fletcher ever was.

Debatable, tbh. Yet, could care less anyway. Wouldn't mind if we lost every ODI series, as long as we were a decent Test side. Which we certainly were under Fletcher.

 

[gio]

Debatable, tbh. Yet, could care less anyway. Wouldn't mind if we lost every ODI series, as long as we were a decent Test side. Which we certainly were under Fletcher.

Agreed,

Why not have a split coach, much like the split captaincy. Fletcher for tests, Moores for ODs... it'll never work!

 

[Manee]

DWTA. Out to Plunkett for a duck for Notts.

And he's done well with the ball, how bizarre.

 

[aussie]

Debatable, tbh. Yet, could care less anyway. Wouldn't mind if we lost every ODI series,.

This is not an acceptable standpoint from an English supporter anymore, but thats a different debate...

as long as we were a decent Test side. Which we certainly were under Fletcher.

Yes, Fletcher inherited our talented but extremely confused 90s side, which from the summer of 2000 to the 05 Ashes things were beautiful.

But since then some injury demon has affected the national side & Fletcher had a bad final year as coach & Moores has yet not been able to put on the field the best possible ENG XI, its still very early to judge.

In a years time we could have Freddie back @ his all-round best, Jones could be back & the Ashes could be won. Moores is picking the right players they just need to perform as a unit again.

 

[gio]

This is not an acceptable standpoint from an English supporter anymore, but thats a different debate...


Yes, Fletcher inherited our talented but extremely confused 90s side, which from the summer of 2000 to the 05 Ashes things were beautiful.

But since then some injury demon has affected the national side & Fletcher had a bad final year as coach & Moores has yet not been able to put on the field the best possible ENG XI, its still very early to judge.

In a years time we could have Freddie back @ his all-round best, Jones could be back & the Ashes could be won. Moores is picking the right players they just need to perform as a unit again.

AWTA (it took me ages to figure out what that acronym meant )

It'll be in a couple of years when Moores will be really tested. Vaughan will be gone, Strauss could be too, and Freddie will be getting past his peak. On the whole, England are in an OK state. Liek you say, Fletcher and Moores have been curesed with injuries since 05.

 

[tooextracool]

Wow The TMS inbox is really ripping into Pietersen on the BBC website.

"Sadly Pietersen is like the builder who persuades you to part with your money, lays the foundation, and then disappears with the work part done. A cowboy cricketer, not a Test cricketer."
Steve, Oldbury, in the TMS inbox

"The selectors need to drop Pietersen for The Oval to show him that he is not more important than the game. If that means sacrificing a match then so be it: he has probably sacrificed this one anyway."
Robert Grimwood, Glasgow, in the TMS inbox

1726 - WICKET - Pietersen c De Villiers b Harris 94, Eng 219-5
That's all folks, Pietersen lets all the excitement get to him, tries to slap Harris over long-on for six and is caught by De Villiers at mid-on. Don't really know what to say about that to be honest. But I certainly don't feel as strongly about it as Alec Stewart on TMS. Stewie reckons Peter Moores and Andy Flower should collar him when he reaches the dressing room and give him the hairdryer. The problem is, they've got their hands full telling all the other batsmen to score some runs.

 

[tooextracool]

Agreed,

Why not have a split coach, much like the split captaincy. Fletcher for tests, Moores for ODs... it'll never work!

Do you really want to see Saj and Plunkers in the test side again? Do you?!

 

[The Masterplan]

Do you really want to see Saj and Plunkers in the test side again? Do you?!

Yes yes please..

 

[wpdavid]

This is not an acceptable standpoint from an English supporter anymore, but thats a different debate...




Yes, Fletcher inherited our talented but extremely confused 90s side, which from the summer of 2000 to the 05 Ashes things were beautiful.

But since then some injury demon has affected the national side & Fletcher had a bad final year as coach & Moores has yet not been able to put on the field the best possible ENG XI, its still very early to judge.

In a years time we could have Freddie back @ his all-round best, Jones could be back & the Ashes could be won. Moores is picking the right players they just need to perform as a unit again.

tbf to Fletcher, the 2005 side didn't include a single player that he inherited. iirc Giles had played a test or 2, but that was it. What he did achieve, both with the 90's bunch in 2000/2001 and the new side in 2004 & 2005, was to get the team to be greater than the sum of its parts. Moores, especially with the batting, has seen the reverse take place.

 

[Manee]

Yes yes please..

Saj Mahmood in the Test team?! What reasoning is behind your decision?

 

[grecian]

tbf to Fletcher, the 2005 side didn't include a single player that he inherited. iirc Giles had played a test or 2, but that was it. What he did achieve, both with the 90's bunch in 2000/2001 and the new side in 2004 & 2005, was to get the team to be greater than the sum of its parts. Moores, especially with the batting, has seen the reverse take place.

Yeah and that is what leadership is all about he beat Pakistan at home without Jones or Flintoff, and he did win Test matches with Saj and Plunkers in the side .

Well done Colly, your best inning and I apologize for doubting you.

Utterly world-class