**Official** New Zealand in England

[HeathDavisSpeed]

NZ to win by 93

 

[FBU]

England with 7 wickets down and 40 to get when the rain arrives. Then on Tuesday there is a short break where we pick up 11 runs with another wicket down and rain for the rest of the day. MOM Taylor. England move on to TB taking the positives from this match.

 

[Leslie1]

If there isn't rain, is a typical test draw out of the question?

 

[NZTailender]

We set what would be a pretty good score on what seems to be a difficultish pitch, then managed to bowl England out for 202. We then collapsed in a heap and England are 1-70odd. We are in the dominant position, and have been for a lot of the match. It's ours to lose.
If England come back it will be a great performance by them in the second half of the match, and we'll only have ourselves to blame.

 

[_Ed_]

If there isn't rain, is a typical test draw out of the question?

I think so, yes.

I'm still in disbelief that we went from 85-2 to 114 all out. It was excellent bowling but still, wow. Right up there with our worst ever collapses.

Hoping we can still pull off the win that seemed so certain at lunch.

 

[Blakey]

Why such a downer? NZ are still in the box seat here. If O'Brien can keep up the standard he's bowled to so far, and Vettori can twirl away at the other end then all will be well. Martin and Mills need to up their game a little, but hopefully they'll be given a rocket and step up. Might see a few overs from Redmond as well, but certainly this game is still in NZ's hands at the moment.

85-2 to 114 all out and being in such a dominant position from an excellent first innings as well as that still feeling a tad embarassed with Vettori's dismissal. That's why I'm pissed. And why I think they have pretty much given the game away.

I would have been much happier with another wicket or two down but a lot depends on the ball getting older.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

85-2 to 114 all out and being in such a dominant position from an excellent first innings as well as that still feeling a tad embarassed with Vettori's dismissal. That's why I'm pissed. And why I think they have pretty much given the game away.

Ah yeah. This makes more sense. Pissed I can understand, but there seemed a feeling of malaise rather than annoyance.

Don't get me wrong, but teams have been a shambles at various points in this test. Its not about who plays best now, but who can prevent themselves from playing like crap

 

[Athlai]

Was disappointed that Flynn didn't come out, not going to be satisfied at all if England end up beating us when they only took 18 wickets. Playing with 9 batsmen is a bit of a stretch for NZ, understandable why he couldn't but injuries are dire.

We bowled well to get England out, particularily the partnership of O'Brien and Vettori, O'Brien was bowling his heart out and was the stand out for the second innings. A poor effort from all the Kiwi's batting barring How, Taylor (marginal LBW IMO) and Marshall.

We should really win this match as this pitch is perfect for our attack (though if Oram were fit and Patel was in there somewhere we'd be all the better).

NZ by 79 runs.

But England have a couple of fantastic players who can swing games, so it should be a gun final day. I was up till 6am this morning due to this match.

 

[99*]

Realistic Prediction: NZ win by 40 runs/Eng win by 3 wickets.
Optimistic Predicton: NZ win by 150 runs.
Pessimistic Prediction: England Win by 7 wickets.
Stupid Prediction: Tied match.

I would have had NZ winning this without a doubt if Eng were 2-3 down, but know I'm just not sure. Suppose Redmond will bowl today, maybe Taylor could do a few overs.

 

[Days of Grace]

I was very surprised it was How, and not Redmond, who bowled the second-last over last night. How's bowling looking all over the place.

I just don't know. I have seen this before, when NZ are in a dominant position and then throw it away in the 3rd innings. I know it was good bowling, but if two other players got at least twenty runs, we'd be looking at a 350 run lead.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be a tense night in my Japanese apartment. Wondering now what food I need to get me through it.

In addition, I wonder whether NZ will take the new ball at 80 overs, as there are bound to be at least 90 overs in this run chase. If Vettori is taking wickets, they will probably not take it. Thoughts? IMO, if we need the new ball after 80 overs, we're in trouble.

 

[Blakey]

Ah yeah. This makes more sense. Pissed I can understand, but there seemed a feeling of malaise rather than annoyance.

Don't get me wrong, but teams have been a shambles at various points in this test. Its not about who plays best now, but who can prevent themselves from playing like crap

To wake up and see the score - disappointed.
To realise they have thrown away a position of tremendous strength - pissed.

 

[Flem274*]

If thats the case, thank god we got score on board

To be honest, I could see NZ suffering the same way in their 2nd innings. I think the batsmen are going to be dead set scared on this pitch now.

Haha, look what fate brought.

Tbh, we've proven we have some very good players (and I suspect some future world class ones) however apart from the Oram, McCullum, Vettori and Martin group they're all very inexperienced. I think inexperience plus the pitch and some good bowling contributed to our collapse. In time they'll learn however if we lose this one (far from likely of course with Vettori on fire in helpful conditions) I hope the public isn't too harsh. I feel Taylor, How and Flynn will definitely be around for a long time (I have hope for Redmond too) and they need to be given space to learn. Hopefully they'll have learnt alot from last night.

With regard to the match situation, as the self proclaimed NZ version of GIMH I think we'll win. This is not a 300 pitch. If we can get rid of the top four we're right in and I'd expect nothing less than victory. Vaughan, Strauss and Pietersen must be dealt with early.

Last nights bowling after the collapse was probably caused by a bit of shellshock. In a couple of hours they went from happy and comfotable back into the fire. As well as that Mills and Martin have been unpenatrative all tour despite some good spells. Unfortunately they've also had some poor spells. Vettori has been amazing and this may well be remembered in the future as "Vettori's test" where he took a 10-for and lead his new young, talented (bar Marshall) and enthusiastic charges to a completely unexpected victory, even from myself the eternal optimist.

Love O'Briens bowling. I really hope he can keep this up. His domestic figures outweigh all bar Mason iirc and Mills, Martin and Franklin have all played their fair share of domestic cricket. Better than Bond's domestic stuff too coincidentally.

The bowling this morning was incredible. In fact it was up to a level that before this summer hasn't been seen form NZ since the days of Bond, O'Connor, Nash, Cairns, Vettori, Allot etc.

I expect our men to win. They have the ability and Captain Fantastic is in red hot form on a turner with good support from O'Brien and hopefully Oram comes back to continue his good work. If England win I will be disappointed but unsurprised as England at full potential are a good side and they're playing a young team. Tonight could well see one side make huge strides in its development and the other take several steps backward. Enormous night for the future of both sides I feel.

 

[Leslie1]

Batting collapses are not new with Black Caps. I don't think they will learn, I think they will keep playing aggressively and if it comes off as stupid, I don't think the current regime cares.

I also think that Mark O Neill needs to quit. Since he's appointed we've seen batting collapses in the second innings of a test match far too often for any black caps' fan liking.

Who've thought my signature, made a while back rings true once again.

 

[pasag]

Nice start, but I'd be very suprised if England won it. Their batting hasn't fired for some time and there's no evidence to suggest it will happen now. Still, 218 to get with 9 wickets isn't toally out of reach by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Pratters]

Hmm must be that time of year when teams hand Panesar obscene bowling figures. How's dismissal was the sort of crap WI were pulling when they were handing Panesar wickets. Marshall and McCullum - godawful shots. Vettori and Mills were more understandable but still poor. Taylor was unlucky obviously.

 

[Craig]

NZ 3rd innings' batting average since playing SA in 2004 at Wellington is 21.89 per wicket.

They have played 16 matches in that time, batting 1st and 3rd, and have won just 2 of them, and losing 9.

Maybe those **** should learn to justify their money.

 

[Craig]

Hmm must be that time of year when teams hand Panesar obscene bowling figures. How's dismissal was the sort of crap WI were pulling when they were handing Panesar wickets. Marshall and McCullum - godawful shots. Vettori and Mills were more understandable but still poor. Taylor was unlucky obviously.

I will say it now, and if other people don't like it too bad, deadset this site was better off when you had your cry and left last year.

 

[Richard]

Scaly and Panesar = Richard and Harmison.

Nah. I was right that Harmison was crap.

Anyway, as several have said, there's no way to pick a winner here, and I'm not doing so. I'm not confident, and I'm not filled with foreboding. I'd not be terribly surprised to see us fall in a heap this morning, but I'd not be surprised to see NZ fail to finish us off as they probably should.

All rational thought suggests NZ should be overwhelming favourites. But recent, never mind more medium-term, history suggests the team that should be winning doesn't always do.

If we win, I'll be delighted. If NZ win, I won't begrudge them it as up to now they've been by a fair margin the better team.

 

[Richard]

But England have a couple of fantastic players who can swing games, so it should be a gun final day. I was up till 6am this morning due to this match.

That's the idea with England vs New Zealand (and vice-versa). I repeatedly did the same thing 4 and 3 months ago.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Fourth innings stats at OT... - not so bad with the bat in recent years after all?