**Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

In a sense, Ramps doesn't count. If the side was being pciked on merit, he'd be there ahead of one of Strauss, Bell & Collingwood. Failing that, he's certainly be in the development squad, or whatever it's called. As he's in neither, I'm treating him as being Officially Too Old.

I don't know that there can be any justification for Ramprakash being picked on merit ahead of any of Strauss, Bell or Collingwood - purely and simply, look at their Test averages. It's not a question of "is Ramprakash too old?", it's a question of "has Ramprakash conquered the failings which caused him to do relatively poorly in his most recent stint as a Test cricketer?"

There's no way he's got a case for being ahead of any of the current incumbant batsmen, but he might just have a case for being ahead of Shah and Joyce.

As for Joyce, what's he actually averaged in recent seasons? I've always regarded him as over-rated, but maybe his FC figures will suggest I'm being unfair.

Think you're judging his potential First-Class credentials on ODIs TBH, which is never a good way to go.

 

[Richard]

Does anyone know if there is going to be any TV coverage of the match, like there was for last year's corresponding fixture against India?

You got coverage of England A vs India in New Zealand?

 

[Richard]

With Vaughan going on record about Fred playing at 7 as one of four bowlers and Sidebottom being a certainty, that leaves an interesting tussle for the other two places. If the current heatwave continues, Panesar will also be a shoe-in, which leaves one from Anderson, Broad and Hoggard.

Regardless of the heatwave(!) I still don't see Lord's' pitch turning much, but even if there wasn't a heatwave(!) we know perfectly well that he'd still play because of the "you must have variation" crap, same way Giles played all those multiple Tests he should never have played.

Can't see Hoggard being picked ahead of Broad TBH, and really I can't say I'd have that many objections to it either. Still think Hoggard is easily the better bowler, but Broad's case as of this moment in time is a much stronger one.

Mercifully, if Flintoff does play, then at least it means we'll almost certainly have no Anderson.

 

[wpdavid]

Think you're judging his (Joyce) potential First-Class credentials on ODIs TBH, which is never a good way to go.

No, I really wasn't. I just hadn't been sturck by his FC performances in the way that I have been by, say, Rob Key. But tbh I haven't looked that closely and I just wondered if anyone could access his FC averages over the last few years.

 

[_Ed_]

Cautious start by the Lions openers.

 

[Richard]

No, I really wasn't. I just hadn't been sturck by his FC performances in the way that I have been by, say, Rob Key. But tbh I haven't looked that closely and I just wondered if anyone could access his FC averages over the last few years.

Since becoming a Middlesex regular in 2002:

2002 (Middlesex)                   18 27 3 1267 129   52.79
2003 (Middlesex)                   18 30 4 1023 117   39.34
2004 (Middlesex)                   14 25 2 1055 134   45.86
2005 (Middlesex)                   16 29 2 1668 192   61.77
2006 (England A)                    2  4 0   67  45   16.75
2006 (Middlesex, MCC & England A)  14 24 1 1215 211   52.82
2007 (Middlesex)                   14 20 2  704 106   39.11
2007/08 (England A)                 2  4 0  176  66   44.00
2008 (Middlesex & MCC)              3  5 0  147  86   29.40

IOW, pretty damn well without a great deal of failure. Just hasn't started very well this year. And, absurdly, has been usurped by Luke Wright.

 

[Richard]

Cautious start by the Lions openers.

So, Swann and Rashid both picked. Full line-up is Carberry, Key, Shah, Bopara, Wright, Prior, Rashid, Swann, Tremlett, Hoggard, Onions.

Only batsmen in this lineup that particularly fill me with confidence are the top three. And the bowling-attack has a promising seamer and a seamer promising to come back from recent disappointments. And not much else.

NZ, meanwhile, go in with How, Redmond, Marshall, Taylor, Flynn, Oram, McCullum, Southee, O'Brien, Patel, Martin.

Perhaps a little worryingly, that suggests O'Brien is still ahead of Mason in the pecking-order.

Oh, yeah - Michael Gough is Umpiring. And he represented England under-19 after Robert Key. And is also younger than Shah, Swann, Hoggard, Marshall, Oram, O'Brien and Martin and the same age as Carberry, Patel and Redmond.

 

[Leslie1]

So, Swann and Rashid both picked. Full line-up is Carberry, Key, Shah, Bopara, Wright, Prior, Rashid, Swann, Tremlett, Hoggard, Onions.

Only batsmen in this lineup that particularly fill me with confidence are the top three.

What's wrong with them?

 

[Richard]

Nothing wrong with Carberry, Key and Shah, they're all very good batsmen. Though Carberry is pretty unlikely to ever play for England.

Bopara is still far from convincing, has had no more than one-and-a-very-little-bit good seasons, and did extremely poorly in Sri Lanka; Wright is, well, crap; Rashid is an all-rounder (a batting-all-rounder, yes, but not an out-and-out front-line batsman); Prior has never convinced me against good seam and swing bowling; and Swann is just a bowler who bats a bit.

None of Tremlett, Hoggard or Onions offer anything of note with the bat.

 

[Leslie1]

Ah, so Key better get his customary century against NZ for this to be a contest then.

26 without loss. Good steady start for the host.

Tom with easily the best figures... 5 MAIDENS from 7 overs so far. Batting must be so disciplined from Lions to withstand that kind of accuracy.

Please do NOT break down Jake.

 

[Goughy]

Wright is, well, crap;

Yep.

Is this really the best of the 'youngish' players we have?

 

[Richard]

Ah, so Key better get his customary century against NZ for this to be a contest then.

26 without loss. Good steady start for the host.

BTW, for some people it might be worth noting, when I say above "Wright is crap" and "Bopara is still far from convincing, has had no more than one-and-a-very-little-bit good seasons, and did extremely poorly in Sri Lanka" and "Prior has never convinced me against good seam and swing bowling" this DOES NOT translate as "they won't be scoring any runs in this game"!!!!!

 

[Richard]

Yep.

Is this really the best of the 'youngish' players we have?

Billy Godleman (who's an opener, and hence not really in the "should be in the middle-order" camp) looks pretty good, and is certainly one I'll be keeping an eye on this year.

He's just 19 though, has barely played a full season, and isn't someone I'd want to see playing for England A just yet even if a position that fitted his preferred batting position was open.

 

[Leslie1]

BTW, for some people it might be worth noting, when I say above "Wright is crap" and "Bopara is still far from convincing, has had no more than one-and-a-very-little-bit good seasons, and did extremely poorly in Sri Lanka" and "Prior has never convinced me against good seam and swing bowling" this DOES NOT translate as "they won't be scoring any runs in this game"!!!!!

What are you saying, that NZ bowling attack isn't worth much if these so called crap players score runs? j/k

Is Chris Martin the most unluckiest NZ bowler so far? He hasn't got a single wicket (?) in the tour matches since he's touched down on English soils. I say this now to make sure he gets a bag after lunch.

 

[Richard]

What are you saying, that NZ bowling attack isn't worth much if these so called crap players score runs? j/k

Have had too much experience of CWers trying to suggest calling someone crap\not-that-good\etc. is wrong just because they happened to score runs shortly after you made the post.

In the game, Oram bowls 5 maidens in a row, impressive stuff. Even O'Brien conceded just 14 from his opening 7 overs. Martin 7 overs for 3, Southee 4 for 10, Patel just coming on to bowl as of this post.

Looks like Carberry and Key are aiming for the long-haul, and presumably the lines of all the bowlers have been excellent to boot.

 

[wpdavid]

Is this really the best of the 'youngish' players we have?

Quite possibly.

Must be great for the spectators - 29 off 23 overs, last I checked.

 

[_Ed_]

Riveting.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

Billy Godleman (who's an opener, and hence not really in the "should be in the middle-order" camp) looks pretty good, and is certainly one I'll be keeping an eye on this year.

He's just 19 though, has barely played a full season, and isn't someone I'd want to see playing for England A just yet even if a position that fitted his preferred batting position was open.

You've also got Denly, who has admittedly had a terrible start to the season, and the likes of Finn and Harris in the bowling ranks, but all of them are still very young and relatively unproven. Denly hasn't done particularly well in the England A games that he's played which suggests it was a step too soon for him.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Carberry just struck two fours off Jeeves.

This upped the run rate by 25 %.

 

[_Ed_]

48/0 at lunch.

What a session.