**Official** New Zealand in England

[GIMH]

You know Rich, just because you list Ambrose above Flintoff doesn't mean he'll bat above him

Our batsmen having few runs under their belts is nothing new going into the first Test. Doesn't make it right, of course, and hasn't exactly always paid off.

 

[Shoggz]

The batsmen in the A team (I refuse to call it 'Lions' !) have a better record so far.

Key and Bopara both have centuries..

Going off tack slightly, the 'ex-wicketkeepers club' have done pretty well so far this season on the batting front.

Read is averaging 88.5, Prior 69.25 and even Jones, G got 85 odd in the Friends Provident game yesterday!

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

Not sure, but hasn't every English player turned-down the IPL for now?

Dimi Mascarenhas is playing for Rajasthan Royals I think. As far as I know, the difference between Bopara and the likes of Pietersen, Vaughan and Sidebottom who have all spoken of their interest at playing in the IPL is that Bopara was actually approached with a significant offer which he turned down, whereas the others are all just talking about liking the idea of being able to play. If that is the case, then I think that Bopara's loyalty is impressive in turning down such an offer; whether he deserves to be anywhere near the England side at the moment or not is a moot point in this case IMO. Although it has to be said that his form has been particularly impressive so far this season.

 

[Richard]

Interesting - I'm not following the IPL, but Mascarenhas definitely played earlier this season.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

Yeah he did, he captained Hampshire in April before going over to India for part of the summer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/7289305.stm

 

[Richard]

The batsmen in the A team (I refuse to call it 'Lions' !) have a better record so far.

Key and Bopara both have centuries..

Going off tack slightly, the 'ex-wicketkeepers club' have done pretty well so far this season on the batting front.

Read is averaging 88.5, Prior 69.25 and even Jones, G got 85 odd in the Friends Provident game yesterday!

Read's been going great guns for several seasons now. Jones scoring one-day runs is quite the rarity however.

Thankfully Read will play Tests no more as he's ICL-contracted, and Jones is now too old for a recall. Ambrose, Foster and Davies FTW.

 

[Richard]

You know Rich, just because you list Ambrose above Flintoff doesn't mean he'll bat above him

No, sadly.

Our batsmen having few runs under their belts is nothing new going into the first Test. Doesn't make it right, of course, and hasn't exactly always paid off.

Runs > no runs, pretty simply. No-one in their right mind ever wants to not score.

 

[Prince EWS]

Interesting - I'm not following the IPL, but Mascarenhas definately played earlier this season.

*definitely

 

[Nutter]

Which isn't confidence-inspiring. We wait and see with not a little apprehension.

But New Zealand aren't exactly setting the world on fire either... so we might actually have ourselves some test matches rather than England smashing us into next week every test!

 

[NZTailender]

No indeed.

Strauss as pointed-out has done little in the First-Class game, and he's got in and got out at least a couple of times too.
Cook hasn't exactly played much, and you can't really expect someone to hit instant form.
Vaughan has gone pretty similar to Strauss.
Pietersen has gone pretty similar to Cook.
Collingwood has gone very poorly, but that's nothing new at domestic level.
Bell has done OK but hasn't made any really big scores.
Ambrose has done pretty well.
Flintoff has not.
Broad has done OK.

Which isn't confidence-inspiring. We wait and see with not a little apprehension.

Shouldn't have expected any else from you

 

[Richard]

So... Collingwood's long-term domestic-First-Class record is inspiring, is it?

 

[Richard]

But New Zealand aren't exactly setting the world on fire either... so we might actually have ourselves some test matches rather than England smashing us into next week every test!

England's propensity to implode outdoes New Zealand's, IMO. Lack of form for our batsmen is worrying, regardless of the apparent indecisiveness of whoever we're up against.

In any case, it feels more than a little weird to be worried about the batting and truly confident of the bowling. That hasn't happened since 2000.

 

[NZTailender]

So... Collingwood's long-term domestic-First-Class record is inspiring, is it?

Who is talking long term? Or even first class? Collingwood has played 3 List-A games this domestic season, for which you've described him as having gone very poorly.

For someone who is so adamant about separating limited overs from first class in terms of form and ability you're quite a funny man.

 

[Richard]

How odd, thought he'd played a couple of First-Class games (and done poorly - like he has long-term) too.

Post edited.

He has done poorly in one-day cricket, of course, but that's irrelevant to Tests, obviously, and wasn't what I was talking about.

 

[wpdavid]

Like most things surrounding this venture the info is cloudy and speculative.

If its true then I think he has made a mistake as he shouldnt be close to the England side at the moment. But then again I think its stupid to offer a player like him the money reported.

Apart from Shah, who else should be ahead of Bopara in the queue for a middle order place right now?

 

[Goughy]

Apart from Shah, who else should be ahead of Bopara in the queue for a middle order place right now?

Pick a name.

I wouldnt even consider him at the moment.

He is no longer a kid (23 the same age as Cook) and is unproven at domestic level. When you add in the fact that I dont like the way he bats and doubt he would succeed at this level then thats the reason. Its not like its giving an opportunity to an uber-talented 19 yr old. Unproven at 23 then its no too much to ask for him to prove himself for 24 or 25.

2007 was supposedly his breakout year, yet he had the same number of 100s as Tim Bresnan. Its not like he pulled a 'Ramprakash'. He is getting too much credit for an isolated season that was good but not special.

Now if he has 2 very good seasons back to back and continues his good form this year then Id may consider him for a winter tour place but that still be debatable.

 

[gettingbetter]

If by middle order, you mean 3-7, I guess you might as well throw Key in (don't bother about any 'openers in the middle order' rant). Other than that, Samit Patel is the only name that comes to mind. Joyce is out of form...and I can't really think of anyone else.

 

[wpdavid]

Pick a name.

I wouldnt even consider him at the moment.

He is no longer a kid (23 the same age as Cook) and is unproven at domestic level. When you add in the fact that I dont like the way he bats and doubt he would succeed at this level then thats the reason. Its not like its giving an opportunity to an uber-talented 19 yr old. Unproven at 23 then its no too much to ask for him to prove himself for 24 or 25.

2007 was supposedly his breakout year, yet he had the same number of 100s as Tim Bresnan. Its not like he pulled a 'Ramprakash'. He is getting too much credit for an isolated season that was good but not special.

Now if he has 2 very good seasons back to back and continues his good form this year then Id may consider him for a winter tour place but that still be debatable.

There's truth in all of that, but I still couldn't name too many middle order batsmen ahead of him if a couple of the current bunch get injured. As I said, there's Shah and then I couldn't name anyone else, ubertalented 19 year old or otherwise. Who did you have in mind?

 

[wpdavid]

If by middle order, you mean 3-7, I guess you might as well throw Key in (don't bother about any 'openers in the middle order' rant). Other than that, Samit Patel is the only name that comes to mind. Joyce is out of form...and I can't really think of anyone else.

Below 3 which, for me, excludes Key. Dunno much about Patel, tbh. Actually, I'd forgotten about Joyce, although I've never really seen what the fuss was about where he was concerned.

 

[Leslie1]

Now if Shah and Key were eligible for NZ we'll take them in a heartbeat. j/k

New Zealand lineup for Lions:

Brendon McCullum (captain), Jamie How, Aaron Redmond, James Marshall, Ross Taylor, Daniel Flynn, Jacob Oram, Tim Southee, Jeetan Patel, Iain O'Brien, Chris Martin.

Vettori nursing his index finger in what he calls a 'freak injury' and Mills is being rested before the big one.

Debatable Mason isn't in there ahead of O Brien but that's selectors showing a bit of consistency which is rare.

Fulton is definitely on the outer now, I can't see him picked for the first test ahead of Flynn and Marshall, both spots he's competing for. If these two perform poorly he might get a shot for the 3rd test. I can't see the lineup changing for the first two tests aside from Vettori for Patel and Mills for either O Brien or Southee.

It feels like the "squad" is one batsman short for all problems we have with it.