Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[Top_Cat]

What prior history and what constant change of excuses ?

Do you seriously think if Harbhajan's story was a full of holes as your are implying, Judge John Hansen wouldn't have seen through that ?

You're right that it doesn't matter so much what people 'know' it matters what people can prove but plenty of people are acquitted or have cases thrown out despite inconsistencies in the accused' story. It's the lack of evidence for the opposite view that often kills it off but it depends on standards. The oft-touted 'CSI Effect' is an example of the problem with assigning lower weight than is due to non-forensic evidence; people have been acquitted on charges by juries because, despite there being elements of doubt in the defense and other strong circumstancial evidence, TV has shown jurors that forensic evidence is the only evidence worth anything so in its absence, refuse to convict. If your only standard is objective or forensic evidence, well, most people will get off and it does ignore the strength of other evidence.

A respected high court judge has heard whatever evidence there is and deemed Harbhajan
to be not guilty of the charge. Everyone deserves the presumptions of innocence until guilt is proven. Harbhajan is no different.

Not saying this of you but I wonder how many people would have been calling him a 'respected judge' if he'd ruled against India?

 

[aussie_26]

nope............if you have watertight evidence......please hang him by all means.....if you don't then leave him alone.

he was found guilty but the charges were downgraded

 

[sirdj]

Aside from the literally hundreds of millions of people worldwide that recognise it as a racial slur, Symonds recognises it as such and Harbajhan knew it.

You'd have to be living under a rock for decades not to know that

Millions of people believe in flying saucers...........millions burned effigies of Symonds and Co.
Millions believe that chopping someones head off is OK....does not make any of it correct.
Who's wearing blinders my friend.

 

[sirdj]

he was found guilty but the charges were downgraded

Oh god...........please read the papers...........he was found guilty of the lesser charge of abuse(which he confessed to)..........NOT racial abuse.

 

[Top_Cat]

Millions of people believe in flying saucers...........millions burned effigies of Symonds and Co.
Millions believe that chopping someones head off is OK....does not make any of it correct.
Who's wearing blinders my friend.

None of that is covered in things like academic journals with decades of evidence offered to support them, though. Comparing the above with what constitutes racism is ridiculous.

 

[aussie_26]

Oh god...........please read the papers...........he was found guilty of the lesser charge of abuse(which he confessed to)..........NOT racial abuse.

what was the abuse ?

 

[sirdj]

Never heard of social Darwinism, and how that was used to justify the mistreatment of black and coloured people? Because the basis of that was that they were closer to apes than humans. Hence the sensitivity to the term 'monkey'.

Firstly educate yourself, White Racial Superiority was used to justify mistreatment of Blacks and slavery.

Social Darwinism was a tool that the Nazis used. It was never accepted in America(unless you belonged to the KKK).


Please read books on evolution, there are millenniums of difference between monkeys and apes...........in fact even Lemurs are as close to apes as monkeys are............only an uneducated person would would make the monkey = ape connection.

 

[Andrew Pollock]

Lets Just Ban Sledging!!!!


And Enjoy The Game Of Cricket

 

[sirdj]

what was the abuse ?

Something to the tune of "teri ma ki" which is an abuse in the punjabi language.

 

[sirdj]

None of that is covered in things like academic journals with decades of evidence offered to support them, though. Comparing the above with what constitutes racism is ridiculous.

Please talk sense..........there is enough "scientific" evidence on flying saucers and Area 51 to fill stadiums.

 

[aussie_26]

Something to the tune of "teri ma ki" which is an abuse in the punjabi language.

nope it was downgraded , who would care if he says teri ma ki, i would look at him like he was nuts if he said that

 

[Dusty Lee]

Oh god...........please read the papers...........he was found guilty of the lesser charge of abuse(which he confessed to)..........NOT racial abuse.

The charge was reduced because CA didn't wan't to face a $60 million law suit from ESPN after the Indians went home.

 

[sirdj]

What an incredibly ignorant narrow minded and wrong headed point of view. That attitude is in itself racist and a disgrace. Shan't bother talking to you on this issue anymore, and regret the time I've wasted doing so until this point. You're just as bad as the people you claim to object to.

Its not like I look forward to your posts...........I have basically stated my view on racism....Why don't you go try knocking doors of black people and try teaching them what you think racism is? Lets see how far you get with that?

 

[sirdj]

nope it was downgraded , who would care if he says teri ma ki, i would look at him like he was nuts if he said that

Well that is the final outcome of the case. It seems even Symonds had to admit that he could not say for sure what was said.

 

[sirdj]

The charge was reduced because CA didn't wan't to face a $60 million law suit from ESPN after the Indians went home.

Try getting CA to admit that

 

[Salamuddin]

How can you use the appeal as a reason for Harbhajan being innocent when the charges were downgraded after CA put pressure on the Australian players to do so after having their arm twisted by the BCCI?

You know it's a great misfortune here that Harbhajan could have been found not guilty if proceedings were allowed to go on untampered with. However, now we'll never know because the BCCI and Indian team held the process to ransom and CA caved in.

If Harby would have been found not guilty because of lack of evidence I would have been more than happy - innocent till proven guilty and whatever the judge decides, that's final. And even though sometimes we find witnesses and circumstantial evidence is enough in most cases, I would have been satisfied that the charge wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt in such a serious accusation.

However, the fact that India were prepared to boycott had the impartial judge not ruled for them and that in turn had an impact on proceedings is one of the biggest cricketing disgraces and leaves such a bad taste. I'm pretty disenfranchised with the whole thing atm.

And we know for certainty that BCCI indulged in arm twisting ???????????
All we have is Lalit Modi saying that we will go home if Harbhajan is convicted....but that does not necessarily amount to the official position of the BCCI does it , given it is a complex political body with lots of competing factions.

Like I said, its pure media speculation on what the BCCI did or didn't do.....

 

[stephen]

It is not just my perception that coloured people bear the brunt of racial abuse, its a fact. It is an outright insult if you deny them that fact. Its you my dear friend who is walking a thin line. That is almost like saying there was no holocaust. Please correct yourself.

I would correct myself if I made the statement that you accuse me of making. The fact of the matter is that I said no such thing (please, learn to read and COMPREHEND). What I said was: "Just because you perceive racism to be a one way street does not make it so, and even if it is". I made no factual statement as to whether the majority of racism past or present is directed at one specific culture or peoples. What I was saying is that you are one voice, and from the sounds of it not a particularly well educated or well mannered voice, who has a definition of racism derived based totally on a one-eyed look at society. By its definition, racism is something which can be leveled at any one group of people. The brand of anti-racism that you are displaying is one based on vengence, not on fairness or equality.

Without quoting dictionaries.........here is the lay of the land.........unless you are a coloured person please do not dare go knocking their doors to tell them what racism is. You will be shown the boot.

So you are accusing all coloured (I hate that term by the way - I much prefer "African-origin" or "Indian-origin" or some other more specific, less discriminatory term) people of being violent when one even tries to define a word. That is a racism far more deep seeded than whatever kind of racism it is that you accuse me of. Now if I went into the home of someone with a different ethnicity and said that they had no right to even define racism - based solely on their race - that would be racism.

 

[sideshowtim]

And we know for certainty that BCCI indulged in arm twisting ???????????
All we have is Lalit Modi saying that we will go home if Harbhajan is convicted....but that does not necessarily amount to the official position of the BCCI does it , given it is a complex political body with lots of competing factions.

Like I said, its pure media speculation on what the BCCI did or didn't do.....

Mate, it's pretty obvious what happened...

 

[Salamuddin]

Mate, it's pretty obvious what happened...

I think there was always a very good chance that Harbhajan was going to be acquitted given the nature of the evidence lined up against him irrespective of what the BCCI did or didn't do..

 

[Andrew Pollock]

This whole episode show how sledging can get out of hand!

Cricket should not be win at any cost!

Ban all sledging, and see how much better cricket is.