Best Test Wicket-Keeper Batsman

[Richard]

Stewart > Jonathan Batty as a wicketkeeper AFAIC. Not so sure about Graham Kersey (the lad who lost his life so tragically young) or whoever preceded him.

 

[Anil]

He wasn't even the best wicket at Surrey for most of the time let alone England, he was about 50% of Alan Knott on a good day.

or bob taylor for that matter...

 

[Richard]

How many more chances than those two of yore did Stewart miss, then?

 

[Craig]

Sorry, as far as I'm concerned I don't have to accept everything I$C$C tell me, and I can use my own intelligence to make-up my mind about what should and shouldn't have Test-status.

That's fine. But then does Martin Love only has three Tests next to his name then?

 

[Top_Cat]

Gilchrist for the overall keeper/batsman package. It's not just his stats, either. It's when he's played certain knocks that should do more to seal his place as one of the best ever than mere numbers. He was able to save Australia in the few circumstances the top-order failed as a unit and often turned a dire situation not just into an innings salvage job but turned the game on its head so that Australia were suddenly able to win the match and at an amazing strikerate (82). He did it with some 50's too but if we just have a look at his 17 Test tons;

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63855.html

Hobart 1999, his first and probably most famous ton. 'nuff said. Aussies had no right to win that match.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63919.html

Came in at 5/99 after Rick 'walking wicket' Ponting was out, turned the match around with Haydos.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63953.html

Australia weren't in deep trouble here but after an amazing start, there was a huge mid-order collapse and they were headed for a 300-350 score. His knock put them up to almost 500. And then he opened in the second dig!

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63979.html

On a difficult deck in SA, turned what could have been a sub-300 score into almost 400. Again, turned the match against SA.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64013.html

Australia lost this match but although everyone remember's Steve Waugh's knock, without Gilchrist going hard all the way with him, it would have been an embarrassment. Even then, it was a heavy loss. Either way, Aus were 5/150 when he came in and his knock put them up to 363.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64072.html

How good a knock against SL in Kandy was this one? Aussies were almost 100 behind on 1st innings and Gilchrist (batting at 3) with Martyn turned it around so that they turned a large deficit into a narrow win.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64128.html

5/160 when he came out, batted with Katich to put the score over 400, Australia win easily. All at just under a run-a-ball.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64129.html

Came out at 5/247 and turned what was a headed towards a middling score into almost 500. 162 off 146 balls.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238171.html

Saved Aussies from total embarrassment against Bangladesh with 144.

So yeah, it's not so much his runs but when he's scored them that stands out. Either he saves the team from a loss or turns a competitive score into unassailable. And then he goes out to keep and takes screamers and keeps relatively well to spinners although not as good as others like Healy and Sanga. And rather than being a batsman who 'keeps relatively well (Stewart, Sanga), he's a 'keeper first and foremost yet still averages almost 50 with the bat. Couple that with his OD stats and that's one awesome player to have in the line-up.

So yeah, for mine, Gillie number 1. Sanga, had he still been keeping, probably would be right up there level with Gillie but he's only really dominated as a batsman once giving up the gloves so I can't rate him as highly as the overall package even though he's probably a better all-round batsman. I wonder what Gilchrist would do if he wasn't 'keeping too?

 

[aussie]

Not sure what you've read but look at his team-by-team averages-breakdown.

yea i see, Ames high average is definately bumped up by bashing the minnows of his time. But this where we will have to trash it out about Hayden for that comparison.

 

[Perm]

No, not substandard sides. Ames only played a couple of games against New Zealand IIRR.

What? Yes Ames played a few Tests against New Zealand, and he didn't really perform that well against Australia, the best team of his time. Yet you compare him to Hayden, who scores pretty heavily against all teams.

 

[Richard]

It's less of a team-by-team breakdown and more a case of simply cashing-in when the going's easy. In Ames' day, that was scoring really heavily against the slightly lesser sides, and less so against the standout opposition.

In Hayden's day, it was failing when the attacks were usually good and the pitches usually had some juice, then succeeding when attacks became almost universally crap and pitches almost universally non-seaming.

 

[Richard]

That's fine. But then does Martin Love only has three Tests next to his name then?

He only has 3 Tests against Test-standard sides to his name.

And if I was given free rein over the classification of status in all cricket matches, he'd have only 3 to his name in official terms too.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

or bob taylor for that matter...

Bob Taylor was very unlucky to be around at the same time as Alan Knott. It was good fortune for him that WSC came along and took Knott away for few years as it gave him a run in the Test side that his talent deserved, albeit in his mid/late 30's. He was probably (without doing any research) the last genuine tailender who was chosen purely for his wicketkeeping. There are a few who rank above him as a wicketkeeper/batsman but only Knott ranks above him purely as a wicketkeeper.

 

[Olwe]

i will still say that Alec Stewart is one of the best keepers ever but that is in my opion,
i have seen him in his last seasons for surrey and i thaught he was amazing to say the leat, i gues you people have had a lot more experiance at waching cricket then i ahev as i am 17, but i cant recall stewart making hardley any mastakes when i haev seen him play,
batting and keeping, and to have over 300 caps for England must stand for sometimg!

 

[Sanz]

You mean best English keeper-batsman ever, right ?

 

[Olwe]

yes, but he was better them some otheres in the poll for example Kumar Sangakarra and Les Ames and i recon he would cause a sierous calage to Adam Gilcrist.

 

[Richard]

Bob Taylor was very unlucky to be around at the same time as Alan Knott. It was good fortune for him that WSC came along and took Knott away for few years as it gave him a run in the Test side that his talent deserved, albeit in his mid/late 30's. He was probably (without doing any research) the last genuine tailender who was chosen purely for his wicketkeeping. There are a few who rank above him as a wicketkeeper/batsman but only Knott ranks above him purely as a wicketkeeper.

Other way around?

There's no chance, whatsoever, that Taylor > Stewart as a 'keeper-batsman. Nor as a cricketer, for that matter.

 

[Sanz]

yes, but he was better them some otheres in the poll for example Kumar Sangakarra and Les Ames and i recon he would cause a sierous calage to Adam Gilcrist.

I think I have had this discussion before(not with you though) but just wanted to ask your opinion on following :-

Is he a better batsman than Sangakkara/Gilchrist ?
Is he a better Wicketkeeper than Sangakkara/gilchrist ?

 

[Richard]

Is he a better batsman than Sangakkara/Gilchrist ?

No.

Is he a better Wicketkeeper than Sangakkara/gilchrist ?

Nothing in it.

 

[Olwe]

everyone has there opiouns

 

[neville cardus]

Bob Taylor was very unlucky to be around at the same time as Alan Knott. It was good fortune for him that WSC came along and took Knott away for few years as it gave him a run in the Test side that his talent deserved, albeit in his mid/late 30's. He was probably (without doing any research) the last genuine tailender who was chosen purely for his wicketkeeping. There are a few who rank above him as a wicketkeeper/batsman but only Knott ranks above him purely as a wicketkeeper.

In terms of pure stumpsmanship, I'd place Taylor fractionally ahead of Knott.

 

[neville cardus]

I think I have had this discussion before(not with you though) but just wanted to ask your opinion on following :-
Is he a better batsman than Sangakkara/Gilchrist ?

An unequivocal "no".

Is he a better Wicketkeeper than Sangakkara/gilchrist ?

Stewart's work may not have been as pretty or as apparently effortless as that of Sangakarra or Gilchrist, but few have matched his honest efficacy.

 

[neville cardus]

everyone has there opiouns

And the reason we come here is to argue them.