*Official* English Football Season 2007-08

[cpr]

hmm, liverpool. Looked like handball on the halfway line before being fed through to Gerrard for mine, and the red was harsh. Believe Everton were denied a stone wall penalty too, though i didnt see that.

 

[Matteh]

Awesome game that. 4-1 to United.

Haha, **** off was it. Wasn't like Man Utd were awesome, Villa's defending was sub-par. Reo-Coker slightly hard done by, another day he might have got a yellow and a warning, Carson going in with the feet, was basically going to have to get the red.

 

[Craig]

"The Big Sledger".

Well he is quite tall...

 

[Tom Halsey]

Haha, **** off was it. Wasn't like Man Utd were awesome, Villa's defending was sub-par. Reo-Coker slightly hard done by, another day he might have got a yellow and a warning, Carson going in with the feet, was basically going to have to get the red.

Villa were ****e, but United were very good.

As for Liverpool... ridiculously lucky yesterday. First penalty was 50/50 - Gerrard had a hold of the Everton defender too. Everton should have had one, possibly two penalties, and Kuyt should have gone. Ffs.

 

[Craig]

Ballon d’Or 2007 candidates:
Eric Abidal (Barcelona), France.
Daniel Alves (Sevilla), Brazil.
David Beckham (LA Galaxy), England.
Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham), Bulgaria.
Gianluigi Buffon (Juventus), Italy.
Fabio Cannavaro (Real Madrid), Italy.
Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), Spain.
Petr Cech (Chelsea), Czech Republic.
Rogerio Ceni (San Paolo), Brazil.
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United), Portugal.
Deco (Barcelona), Portugal.
Mahamadou Diarra (Real Madrid), Mali.
Diego (Werder Bremen), Brazil.
Didier Drogba (Chelsea), Ivory Coast.
Michael Essien (Chelsea), Ghana.
Samuel Eto’o (Barcelona), Cameroon.
Francesc Fabregas (Arsenal), Spain.
Gennaro Gattuso (Milan), Italy.
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), England.
Ryan Giggs (Manchester United), Wales.
Thierry Henry (Barcelona), France.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Inter), Sweden.
Filippo Inzaghi (Milan), Italy.
Kaka` (Milan), Brazil.
Frederic Kanoute` (Sevilla), Mali.
Miroslav Klose (Bayern Munich), Germany.
Younis Mahmoud (Algharafa), Iraq.
Paolo Maldini (Milan), Italy.
Florent Malouda (Chelsea), France.
Lionel Andres Messi (Barcelona), Argentina.
Shunsuke Nakamura (Celtic), Japan.
Guillermo Ochoa (America Mexico), Mexico.
Andrea Pirlo (Milan), Italy.
Ricardo Quaresma (Porto), Portugal.
Raul (Real Madrid), Spain.
Franck Ribery (Bayern Munich), France.
Juan Roman Riquelme (Villarreal), Argentina.
Robinho (Real Madrid), Brazil.
Ronaldinho (Barcelona), Brazil.
Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), England.
Paul Scholes (Manchester United), England.
Clarence Seedorf (Milan), Holland.
Carlos Tevez (Manchester United), Argentina.
Luca Toni (Bayern Munich), Italy.
Kolo Toure` (Arsenal), Ivory Coast.
Jose` Fernando Torres (Liverpool), Spain.
Francesco Totti (Roma), Italy.
Ruud van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid), Holland.
Robin van Persie (Arsenal), Holland.
David Villa (Valencia), Spain.

Can't say I've heard of Younis Mahmoud, but surely his selection is more token then anything. Players bolded are those who play in the EPL and I felt I would bold Henry since he used to play there anyway.

For me it will be:

Kaka
Cristiano Ronaldo
Francesco Totti

Would like Totti to win tbh but Kaka will get the gong.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Can't say I've heard of Younis Mahmoud, but surely his selection is more token then anything. Players bolded are those who play in the EPL and I felt I would bold Henry since he used to play there anyway.

Asia Cup champion this year. Was instrumental - scored four goals and was MVP.

It appears they're going to expand to the whole world too. Used to be an UEFA-only award.
I'll admit I've never heard of Ochoa (América) or Diarra though. Mildly amused at Rogério being the only one in South American clubs to merit a nomination - the lad's a 34-year-old goalkeeper and the second-choice for Brazil!

 

[Craig]

Asia Cup champion this year. Was instrumental - scored four goals and was MVP.

It appears they're going to expand to the whole world too. Used to be an UEFA-only award.
I'll admit I've never heard of Ochoa (América) or Diarra though. Mildly amused at Rogério being the only one in South American clubs to merit a nomination - the lad's a 34-year-old goalkeeper and the second-choice for Brazil!

Maybe his penalty taking and goal kicking ability gets him the nod

 

[bugssy]

Haha, **** off was it. Wasn't like Man Utd were awesome, Villa's defending was sub-par. Reo-Coker slightly hard done by, another day he might have got a yellow and a warning, Carson going in with the feet, was basically going to have to get the red.

i think gerrards penalty was an easy penalty, as for the end everton definately deserved one with lescot being taken over by carragher but thats football.

i remember a game earlier this year against chelsea when they where given one when it was no way near a penaly but who knows.....all part and parcel of the game.

i wann aknow why gerrard was taken off at that time of the game he was dominatinga nd why torres didnt get any game time. screw this rotation system .....

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Hasn't Torres got a niggle or something? Maybe I'm hearing things.

 

[Matteh]

Villa were ****e, but United were very good.

Naah they weren't. Villa's dire defending basically handed 2 sitters, the 3rd goal was definitely dire defending as it's pretty obvious when you're under a crossbar to kick it forward instead of up, they then gave away a penalty because of dire defending and Taylor was unlucky that Giggs' shot for the 4th hit two defenders otherwise he had it covered.

Wayne Rooney, proved again that English players can't take penalties. Get some height on it cretin.

 

[cpr]

Utd's build up play was the most fluid seen for a while, would've won it even if Villa wernt as shocking as they were.

As for Rooney's penalty. Was pretty much in the corner. Justs keeper went the right way and got over for it. Keeper picked his spot and got it right. Its actually easier to save a penalty at height rather than on the ground (unless its in the top corner, but thats not easy given theres the chance it'll go over). Not a bad penalty, good keeping for mine

 

[bugssy]

Hasn't Torres got a niggle or something? Maybe I'm hearing things.

oh ok will have to have a look!

 

[Tom Halsey]

Wayne Rooney, proved again that English players can't take penalties. Get some height on it cretin.

Nothing to do with height, infact the lower the better, it was just poorly struck.

 

[Matteh]

Low penalties? Smack it a metre off the ground and it's over the keeper every time. Chances of it being saved when hit low are so much higher if the ball is low.

 

[1-9-7-7]

Low penalties? Smack it a metre off the ground and it's over the keeper every time. Chances of it being saved when hit low are so much higher if the ball is low.

Awta

 

[sledger]

Vanilla ice, ha the big sledger you are total annoyance yo.

Anyway i do not believe my suggestion of not relying totally on the 4-4-2 formation & instead of being more flexible and trying new formations that could work wouldn't kill them especially the 4-3-2-1 formation.

That flat 4-4-2 formation that won us easy games since the Israel encounter up until Russia humbled us againts any of the big nations in Europe we would be murdered. 4-4-2 may still be the most used formation in the game by most coaches but you got have something special in the centre of the park to make it work. Look at France, Italy or Spain for example they at times play 4-4-2 but look who play at in te centre of the park for them Vieira & Makelele, Guttuso & Pirlo, Xavi & Albeda supported by wide-men who are extremely adept and natural at their roles a target man or strong striker with another one who can play of them. With England we don't have that.

If we intend to play 4-4-2 it has to be a diamond formation with Hargreaves holding & either Gerrard or Lampard as the play-maker depending on form. But in most cases you would have to pick Gerrard over Lamps since his all-round game is better than Lamps even if Lamps may be better off at scoring. On the right Beckham still is the best-man since except for Bentley who has a decent combination of pace & crossing ability all of the other aspiring right-wingers in the land in SWP, Lennon, Pennant have a lot of work to do on their overall game before they can be termed quality international wingers, while we are stuck with Cole on the left since no one in the land is better. (although Ashley Young is progessing well)

Going forward even though we have Owen & Rooney who have proved in the past they can forge a solid partnership given their quickness in the box you always feel agains sides like France, Italy, Germany & other physical sides were they got strong central defenses and mid-field marshalls that they could get marked out & thus we need a target man option to protect them. Thus we may say with Heskey's recent emergence that he is the best target-man available for either Owen or Rooney to play off but can we be certain that he can maintain that performance of a comanding giant or even develop more into goal-scoring one and not go back to days were he wasted his presence in the box?. Also even though Ashton shows potential as well in that role until he can get a full season for the hammers we would be just working on assumptions again.

But that is if everyone is playing well and ATM 4-4-2 is just won't work for England. Gerrard nor Lampard is playing nowhere near good enough to be used as a play-maker at the head of a diamond mid-field & Joe Cole even though has had some very good days on the left for England of late since the WC game vs Sweden has to gone off the boil a bit especially since he hardly plays on the left for Chelsea anymore & hasn't for a long time his solid performances have been from the right in a 4-3-3 formation (i.e 2 recent CL goals from the right while a poor FA Cup final from the left lead to him being taken off vs United). Football is a team game and if we got certain players who in certain positions where we aren't getting the best out of them we are going to have problems on the pitch. On current form & known ability the best two men to play in the centre of park for England in a 4-4-2 formation would be Hargreaves & Barry, not dynamic but i know they would do work tirelessly for England.


To my point though, 4-3-2-1 i'm feeling it looking at other teams in Europe & worldwide who play it or have played it i.e AC Milan with Guttuso, Pirlo, Seedorf or Ambrosini more withdrawn & assign various roles with Kaka as the playmaker behind two strikers, Werder Bremem with Bauman/Frings/Borowski withdrawn doing basically defensive work with Diego the playmaker, Spain in the last WC with Xavi/Albeda/Fabregas deep with Raul the playmaker or the recent Argentina side in Copa America with Mascherano/Cambiasso/Veron deep & Riquelme the playmaker.

With England i'd say have Hargreaves/Barry/Gerrard withdrawn with various roles i.e Hargreaves with hold, Barry will supply the passes & Gerrard will go from box to box defending or attacking when necessary. Rooney will be playmaker since he is the only one who has the skill to play that role. Then you would have Owen & Heskey/Ashton so we will have the physical & aerial threat along with pace up front:

-------------------------------HESKEY/ASHTON-----------------------OWEN--------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------ROONEY------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------BARRY---------------------------------------------GERRARD------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------HARGREAVES-------------------------------------------------

Well balanced mid-field & based on the situation of the game you could always go back to 4-4-2 since you have bench strenght of Lamps, Cole, Beckham to call from. If things go England's way and they get to EURO 2008 along with a change of manager this formation is a good option.

although that team you have picked there is better than any of the other ridiculous incarnations the rest of the argument doesnt stand up to any examination.... i cant be arsed to wade through all the drivel you have laid out about 442 not working....

the bottom line is it is a very simple formation that can be used to great effect by any team worth their salt, the reason it hasnt worked for england is because the the wide players used have been crap, and frank lampard and gerrard cannot play together.

The problem with the idea you have listed is that england dont have a decent holding midfielder (barring hargreaves perhaps), neither do they have a decent play maker, which is why 442 IS the best option available, the reason England cant play a system like AC Milan, Brazil or Bremen is because there arent any players up to playing in such a system.

The best side available to England at full strength is..

Kirkland

Richards
Ferdinand
Terry
Cole

J.Cole
Gerrard
Hargreaves
Beckham

Heskey/Ashton
Rooney

in a 4-4-2, for all the mention of players not being great but working hard, fair enough, but Jon Harley could work as hard as anyone in the world but he woulnt be a patch on Ashley Cole.

The reason no more adventurous formations have been tried, is for the simple reason, that any coach worth their salt, can see that they simply would not work.

 

[Loony BoB]

Naah they weren't. Villa's dire defending basically handed 2 sitters, the 3rd goal was definitely dire defending as it's pretty obvious when you're under a crossbar to kick it forward instead of up, they then gave away a penalty because of dire defending and Taylor was unlucky that Giggs' shot for the 4th hit two defenders otherwise he had it covered.

Wayne Rooney, proved again that English players can't take penalties. Get some height on it cretin.

Nah, they can - Hargreaves will be back soon enough.

 

[cpr]

Low penalties? Smack it a metre off the ground and it's over the keeper every time. Chances of it being saved when hit low are so much higher if the ball is low.

Nah, easier to save. Penalty a metre of the ground means so long as you chuck your body the right way, the balls at a nice comfy height to parry away, on the ground means you have to get yourself through the air and back down again to get a hand to it. So unless your confident of putting it in the top corner, keep it low. And not many players can get it top corner every time. Look at those who have taken pens regularly over the years, Henry, Cantona et all, always put it low and right in the corner. Only player i can think of who had the skill to hit it high and score every time was Le Tissier. Oh and maybe Shearer, who just blasted them in

 

[sledger]

Nah, easier to save. Penalty a metre of the ground means so long as you chuck your body the right way, the balls at a nice comfy height to parry away, on the ground means you have to get yourself through the air and back down again to get a hand to it. So unless your confident of putting it in the top corner, keep it low. And not many players can get it top corner every time. Look at those who have taken pens regularly over the years, Henry, Cantona et all, always put it low and right in the corner. Only player i can think of who had the skill to hit it high and score every time was Le Tissier. Oh and maybe Shearer, who just blasted them in

yeah concur with that, most penalty saves i can recall are pretty much as described by you there.

 

[roseboy64]

Low penalties? Smack it a metre off the ground and it's over the keeper every time. Chances of it being saved when hit low are so much higher if the ball is low.

Awta

Wrong.