Intercontinental Cup, 2007

[Chemosit]

After Bermuda's five wicket loss to Denmark, the other teams will be licking their lips with anticipation. I know it was a one-dayer, but I reckon both Denmark and Uganda will be feeling they would be better teams to compete in the IC.
A definite case for a second IC tier and a promotion/relegation playoff at the end of the two years.

 

[chaminda_00]

There is a promotion and regulation, but its every 4 years after the ICC Trophy. Also there is a 2nd tier competition, but its just a One Day competition and gets played every two years i think.

 

[Chemosit]

The second tier you are referring to I think is the WCL as opposed to the Intercontinental Cup. there is a distinct difference with the former being ODIs and the latter First class matches over 4 days. No second tier of first class games currently exists for Associates.

Just as Test and ODI rankings and stats are kept separate, so should the I.C and WCL be kept separate. Regards promotion and relegation in the IC cup, this is currently a grey area with the ICC in that there is no concrete provision to include it, hence my point.

 

[brockley]

I had heard bermuda were struggling but not this much,puts in doubt them qualifying in 2009 and being competitive for the next few years in icc associate one dayers.

 

[Chemosit]

They have lost the second game against Denmark as well and by a bigger margin.

It will be interesting to see what happens later this year as both Bermuda and Denmark visit Kenya, the former to play the IC, the latter to play Kenya A.

 

[chaminda_00]

The second tier you are referring to I think is the WCL as opposed to the Intercontinental Cup. there is a distinct difference with the former being ODIs and the latter First class matches over 4 days. No second tier of first class games currently exists for Associates.

Just as Test and ODI rankings and stats are kept separate, so should the I.C and WCL be kept separate. Regards promotion and relegation in the IC cup, this is currently a grey area with the ICC in that there is no concrete provision to include it, hence my point.

The problem is that its no possiable finanically to fly teams around for world and play FC matches. None of associates make any money of hosting these matches and generally lose money every time they have a match.

Also the standard of cricket is pretty poor below the top 8 Associate sides. Most sides would struggle to bat out a day and most matches would be over by 2 days. The other factor is turf pitches and well the lack of them in most countries. The WCL games in the last couple seasons have been played in Darwin as PNG (East Asia-Pasific) were due to host then but they didn't have good enough grounds.

Its not as easy as just saying lets play FC matches it will improve the standard of cricket. There are other factors to consider and there are more negativies then positives to having a 3rd tier FC competition. A One Day competition is more viable options ATM, but there should be promotion and regulation once a season on the basic of that competition.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Bermuda's woes continue...

Bermuda 183 all out
Irvine Romaine 103*; Mangesh Panchal 5-34, Mudassar Bukhari 2-29, Edgar Schiferli 2-34

Netherlands 152 for nought
Tom de Grooth 79*, Alexei Kervezee 69*

Ireland drew with Scotland, btw. Was always on the cards after that 1st innings, I suppose, and 9 hours of rain didn't help.

New Irish sixth-wicket record, too. Andre Botha/Alex Cusack 234.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Schiferli has had a fair bit of a chance at this level and has never really performed to his potential. Maybe his hasn't been fully fit when his played, but i can't see him performing at a high level.

RTD has always been a class above most Dutch bowlers, but he struggles to cut it at domestic level with the bowl in England. He basically plays as a specialist batsmen for Essex. Really you need guys who are near FC standard to take their side to another level and i doubt RTD will ever reach that level. He will always be servicable at best.

The other are fairly new so i guess the jury is out. But the later two Bukhari and Kashif look ever much like you can bat a bit and bowl a bit options that Holland has always had in the past.

Is Jonkman any good?. Only time I've seen him was in the WC but I imagine he's held as the Dutch's hottest fast bowling talent.

 

[chaminda_00]

Is Jonkman any good?. Only time I've seen him was in the WC but I imagine he's held as the Dutch's hottest fast bowling talent.

Most people rate him as he seems fast, rather then what he does with the ball. Like most Associate sides they are all looking for a out and out fast bowler, rather then the medium pacers they all produce. He probably is Holland best prospect as a fast bowler, but by the looks the things he trys to bowl too fast for what his body can handle. Unless he bowls within himself i think he will be injury prone. But if he does bowl within himself he will just be another average medium pacers from the Associate sides.

 

[Kweek]

Ian Pont(Essex fast bowling coach) reckons Jonkman will be the fastest associate bowler in a few years.
Tom de Grooth I salute you.
last year when I was on tour with Holland U17/19 dev team. his parents were the hosts of our homebase and truely cricket loving people and mad about the special game.
Well Done Tom

now Holland, win it easly and slaughter 'm

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

I can't see Bermuda ever playing in the World Cup again, or lasting even much longer at this level. They seem to have just got a bit lucky in Ireland back in 2005 (?) and are now woefully outclassed. Someone get the Afghans in there, fast.

 

[TT Boy]

What's happened to Saleem Mukuddem?

He was Bermuda's best bowler in the World Cup and alongside Boyd Rankin, the best associate bowler on show.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

What's happened to Saleem Mukuddem?

He was Bermuda's best bowler in the World Cup and alongside Boyd Rankin, the best associate bowler on show.

He retired.

 

[stumpski]

I can't see Bermuda ever playing in the World Cup again, or lasting even much longer at this level. They seem to have just got a bit lucky in Ireland back in 2005 (?) and are now woefully outclassed. Someone get the Afghans in there, fast.

If their success at U19 level is anything to go by I think Nepal could be the next dark horse to emerge as a leading Associate side.

 

[TT Boy]

He retired.

Cheers.

It looked like Saleem’s babysitter row with Bermuda Cricket Board played a significant part in his decision. Shame that, Bermuda can’t afford to lose cricketers of Mukuddem’s talent, regardless of his mature age.

 

[Chemosit]

Most people rate him as he seems fast, rather then what he does with the ball. Like most Associate sides they are all looking for a out and out fast bowler, rather then the medium pacers they all produce. He probably is Holland best prospect as a fast bowler, but by the looks the things he trys to bowl too fast for what his body can handle. Unless he bowls within himself i think he will be injury prone. But if he does bowl within himself he will just be another average medium pacers from the Associate sides.

You make a good point about the Associates search for quality FAST bowlers. I know that Kenya are trying to find one, but I don't think it is realistically possible without domestic First Class (or multi day) cricket. At the moment, the teams will pick their best possible available XI for the IC rather than using it as a vehicle to develop a talented quick.

I believe to generate genuine good fast bowlers who will take wickets at international level, you need them to play in situations where they have to get the batsmen out rather than one dayers where runs are the premium rather than wickets, so batsmen tend to be more cavalier. There are some fast bowlers amoung the Associates - Luseno is an example, who have plenty pace, but need the experience of longer games if they are genuinely going to trouble top batsmen.

 

[chaminda_00]

Denmark will be the next Associate to make the step up. With the exposure their top players get in county 2nd XI matches and regular matches against Ireland, Holland and Scotland through ECC. They will be the side most match harden to take their game to another level at Associate Cricket if they already haven't surpassed Nambia and UAE already.

Nepal, Afghanistan and Bermuda, probably have the most talent natural talent but their players struggle after U19 cricket to reach any high levels due to the poor standard and organisation of open age cricket. You just look at the guys in the Burmuda side they are all mature aged players before they can reach their potential, even the guys that are comming into the side. The path way from U19s to open age is non existent for these teams. Teams like Kenya are fairly poor when it comes to their struture of their domestic cricket, but its nothing compared to Nepal and Afghanistan.

 

[Chemosit]

Only in the last 2 years have Kenya really started getting matches for their U19 and Kenya A teams and I believe it will make a big difference. It has been a good start, but I think that this is something all the associates need to work together more on. Again, it comes down to funds (or lack of), but more regular tours between each other at these levels would make a big difference in terms of bringing through the talented players.

At the moment, I feel too many young Associate players are brought into the national sides prematurely. Most would do better coming through an U19 and A team structure, provided they got enough exposure against other similar sides.

 

[brockley]

Bangladesh has a good system firsts,A's,academy and under 19's.
System devised by australia using aussie coaches.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Bangladesh has a good system firsts,A's,academy and under 19's.
System devised by australia using aussie coaches.

Their budget is also ten times that of any associate nation. That does tend to help getting such things set up.