archie mac
International Coach
I will have you know that I have won two Skulls
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*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion
- Thread starter Mr Mxyzptlk
- Start date
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
yep.... My parents happen to hail from a couple of villages only and we go there every year to the temples and stufff.... The guy who performs the pooja in our temple is one of the so called "lower" caste guys. Hope you get the point now....
The conflicts u talk about happen between different sects amongst the same castes... For example, the Thevars have some conflicts with some other community in their places... Quite a lot different from casteism and discrimination, I have to say. It is more like "my community is better than yours" kind of thing. There is no real discrimination as far as I know, apart from some guys being denied entry into temples and stuff, but that is more because of his social status than anything. A rich guy from the same caste will become a VIP visitee when he visits such temples. Unfortunately in India, money matters more than everything...
where doesn't it?Unfortunately in India, money matters more than everything...
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Well, I think it is the same everywhere but I haven't been to anywhere other than India, so can't speak for the rest.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Haha, was that pitch a real turner, or does he just rip leg-spinners square as well?
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Ya, absolutely amazing. Don't know how that pitch was but I don't think it can just be the pitch, the way he bowled them...
JBH001
International Regular
I think he rips leggis squaure too, Vic!
I remember him bowling Jonty Rhodes behind the legs in Colombo in the early 90s with a leggie that pitched about a foot or two outside leg stump. Rhodes had been sweeping him all day long and Murali had been toothless to respond - in those days all he had was the big offie and nothing else, so the leggie was a welcome 'variation'.
Speaking of Murali and leg spinners, remember that Emerson called him for bowling leg spinners too in that ODI in Melbourne (?) in 1998/99.
My problem with Murali is that the laws of cricket stated that if the umpire percieved that the player was bending his arm, then he should be no balled. The Australian umpires perceived that he was bending and no-balled. All subsequent test showed that the perceived bending was in fact real. The umpires got it right but were ridiculed for upholding the rules as they then stood. Bottom line is that Hair and Emerson were right in their calls.
As for the subsequent tests that showed that many other bowlers bent as well. It showed that the laws needed changing but did not invalidate the initial calls. (Fast bowlers are much harder to spot than spinners, especially ones with an already bent arm.)
The laws were changed to the 10, 7.5 and 5 rule. However Murali still didn't comply, so they changed the rules again.
It is not that Australia has not had bowlers that "chucked" but compare the actions taken between Ian Meckiff (or any other no-ball called bowlers) and Murali. Why was it that the laws were changed after Murali was called but not after any of the previous bowlers (mainly Eng and Aus bowlers) in the past. Not only changed once but twice to ensure that he fitted within the rules.
However since the rulers of the game seem determine to ensure that he is deemed legal, then on statistics, he is the better bowler then Warne but not statistically up to Bradman. (I would also say he is far more sporting than Warne and a better ambassador for the game.)
As for the subsequent tests that showed that many other bowlers bent as well. It showed that the laws needed changing but did not invalidate the initial calls. (Fast bowlers are much harder to spot than spinners, especially ones with an already bent arm.)
The laws were changed to the 10, 7.5 and 5 rule. However Murali still didn't comply, so they changed the rules again.
It is not that Australia has not had bowlers that "chucked" but compare the actions taken between Ian Meckiff (or any other no-ball called bowlers) and Murali. Why was it that the laws were changed after Murali was called but not after any of the previous bowlers (mainly Eng and Aus bowlers) in the past. Not only changed once but twice to ensure that he fitted within the rules.
However since the rulers of the game seem determine to ensure that he is deemed legal, then on statistics, he is the better bowler then Warne but not statistically up to Bradman. (I would also say he is far more sporting than Warne and a better ambassador for the game.)
adharcric
International Coach
Say what?
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
a) Hair may have been right that time, but Emerson most certainly wasn't.
b) The law was not changed just for him. It gave more leeway for the faster bowlers when in actual fact, the arm speeds of the spinners was quite comparable to the faster bowlers.
c) The third time the law was changed was because it was proven that almost all bowlers were in violation of the "no flex of the elbow" rule.
d) Bending the arm in itself was not a violation of the old bowling law. You can start off with a bent arm and still bowl legally as long as you don't straighten it.
Fiery
Banned
a) How are you deciding who's right or wrong here? Subjectivity
b) Yes it was
c) *ahem* Anyone who believes all bowlers are chuckers based on these findings needs their head examined tbh
d) So "as long as you don't straighten your arm, you're OK"
...bull**** rule
Last edited:
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Um, it was proven scientifically...I don't see how you can argue with this!
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
What the hell are you on about? How is it chucking if you don't straighten your arm? How is that a 'bull****' rule?d) So "as long as you don't straighten your arm, you're OK"
archie mac
International Coach
Not real time testing though
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
That proves my point though. Even under controlled circumstances, the bowlers had more than 10% bend..so in real time, if anything, you'd expect them to have more.Not real time testing though
adharcic:
Should have said straightening in my original post. (Although the term bending can including straightening, straightening is clearer. eg: You can be bending something back into place etc.) I was trying to highlight that due to Murali starting slightly bent any movement probably showed up more easily (and led to greater scrutiny.)
Fiery: Hair still cops lots of flack for that stand. But in essence he made the correct call, it is just that most other umpires don't have the b***.
As for Emerson, was there any rule that says the square leg umpire couldn't call. The law laid it on the umpires to call, if they had suspicions. From what we know now, a lot of unpires had suspicions but didn't want to risk the wrath, for doing their duty. Having seen what has happened to Hair I doubt any umpire will ever again make a tough call.
My point is still that until Murali, every called bowler either quit or remodelled. For some reason the powers that be decided Murali shouldn't suffer that fate.
Quite frankly what a bowler might do when he knows he is under scrutiny in a lab, is a poor indicator of what he might do at the end of his second day in the field after having bowled 40 overs. If you have dodgy action and are getting hammered and are tired, my money is that the action will deteriorate as you tire, even if you don't mean to.
Murali is a champion and great sportsman but I think until someone can arrange biometric measurement through a game, we will never really know what he is doing. For me, to the eye, he looks like he does throw (especailly the doosra) and so I will always veiw his acheivements as being diminished. (Furthermore he has the stigma of having been called on feild by two different umpires.)
I would never call "no-ball" at him, but neither would I rate with Warne let alone Bradman until I've seen match based biometrics that shows what my eye appears to see isn't happening.
Should have said straightening in my original post. (Although the term bending can including straightening, straightening is clearer. eg: You can be bending something back into place etc.) I was trying to highlight that due to Murali starting slightly bent any movement probably showed up more easily (and led to greater scrutiny.)
Fiery: Hair still cops lots of flack for that stand. But in essence he made the correct call, it is just that most other umpires don't have the b***.
As for Emerson, was there any rule that says the square leg umpire couldn't call. The law laid it on the umpires to call, if they had suspicions. From what we know now, a lot of unpires had suspicions but didn't want to risk the wrath, for doing their duty. Having seen what has happened to Hair I doubt any umpire will ever again make a tough call.
My point is still that until Murali, every called bowler either quit or remodelled. For some reason the powers that be decided Murali shouldn't suffer that fate.
Quite frankly what a bowler might do when he knows he is under scrutiny in a lab, is a poor indicator of what he might do at the end of his second day in the field after having bowled 40 overs. If you have dodgy action and are getting hammered and are tired, my money is that the action will deteriorate as you tire, even if you don't mean to.
Murali is a champion and great sportsman but I think until someone can arrange biometric measurement through a game, we will never really know what he is doing. For me, to the eye, he looks like he does throw (especailly the doosra) and so I will always veiw his acheivements as being diminished. (Furthermore he has the stigma of having been called on feild by two different umpires.)
I would never call "no-ball" at him, but neither would I rate with Warne let alone Bradman until I've seen match based biometrics that shows what my eye appears to see isn't happening.
roseboy64
Cricket Web Content Updater
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