South Africa & Quotas

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This one Gough, last post on page 10

Even in Oz, where the anti-discrimination laws are quite stringent, certain practices, that would otherwise be caught, might be deemed ok by the existence of federal policy

For example, if the Oz govt implemented a quota system, then the anti-discrimination laws possibly wouldnt apply

Really comes down to the wording of the policy and, just as importantly, the philosophical view of the majority of the High Court bench determining a challenge to it (if the "victim" could afford to take it that far)

 

[Langeveldt]

Also, you ask to name one person who thought Ngam should have been picked at the time. Well, I can tell you that I was pretty excited about Ngam what now seems ages ago.

Cheers.

Yeah, ditto.. Trescothick averaged 20 odd as did Michael Vaughan in the CC before they were promoted to England colours.. The selectors saw talent, and it paid off big time.. Chew Ngam excited me, he was genuinely quick, and many pundits, white and black were calling for his inclusion at the time in South Africa.. I've seen far worse picks than he..

 

[Richard]

Yeah, ditto.. Trescothick averaged 20 odd as did Michael Vaughan in the CC before they were promoted to England colours.. The selectors saw talent, and it paid off big time

That's over-egging the pudding. Vaughan's average was in the mid-30s and Trescothick's 32-33.

 

[Langeveldt]

That's over-egging the pudding. Vaughan's average was in the mid-30s and Trescothick's 32-33.

when they made their England debuts?

 

[Richard]

Yeah, think Vaughan's average is pushing 40 right now...

Anyone who picked someone for Tests who was averaging less than 30 in First-Class cricket needs their heads examined.

 

[Goughy]

Obviously the laws are probably different where you live, but if a similar incident happened here, said player would have every right to go to the nearest anti-discrimination centre (for example it would be the Queensland Anti-Discrimination Department, or the relevant one in Victoria, or New South Wales etc.). Do such laws exist in SA?

You know the thing is flawed when a a non-white athlete (and more then one) speak out against this policy, because otherwise what is the point in working hard and trying to achieve the best from your ability.

I all honestly, I dont know the legal nuances of the system here in RSA and I would hate to speculate.

Ill have an ask around to find out what the discrimination laws are. There are obviously laws to promote and favour 'previously disadvantaged people' but I have no idea as to their depth and scope. I have no real clue of the proceedure for redressing perceived injustices regarding discrimination.

There have recently been changes in Black Economic Empowerment laws (ie comanies competing for government and other contracts must have a certain number of black board members and share holders) but regarding discrimination legistlation, Ill have to find out.

Sorry that doesnt help much, I am a coach rather than a laywer after all

 

[Craig]

I all honestly, I dont know the legal nuances of the system here in RSA and I would hate to speculate.

Ill have an ask around to find out what the discrimination laws are. There are obviously laws to promote and favour 'previously disadvantaged people' but I have no idea as to their depth and scope. I have no real clue of the proceedure for redressing perceived injustices regarding discrimination.

There have recently been changes in Black Economic Empowerment laws (ie comanies competing for government and other contracts must have a certain number of black board members and share holders) but regarding discrimination legistlation, Ill have to find out.

Sorry that doesnt help much, I am a coach rather than a laywer after all

I've heard of one such case, where a white farmer was told by Woolworths that unless he got a black person on the board and majority shareholder or they weren't interested.

Hope I do get the chance to visit one day, even though my dad and ex-pat South Africans I have known don't want me to.

 

[pakster]

Isn't it funny how SA's quota players (amla, prince, Ntini) won them the game against pak? Maybe, (whisper it) they were chosen on merit

 

[Dover 1]

Issues like his one IMO can and will do only one thing:- damage the sport of cricket.I think what's important is to select the best team possible according to the circumstances that exist at the time. NO MATTER WHAT THE COLOR RATIO IS. let us move foward for the benefit of cricket.

 

[Richard]

Sorry that doesnt help much, I am a coach rather than a laywer after all

Cricket-wise, you're one of a dying breed.

I should probably add a or or summat.

 

[Goughy]

The Test scheduled to start tomorrow against Pakistan has interesting ramifications regarding quotas.

If what Arthur wants to happen does happen then I am willing to state that the quotas/targets are not as inflexible as I had believed and stated.

Arthur wants Ntini and Pollock rested due to exhaustion and Gibbs will miss out due to suspension.

With Dippenaar coming in for Gibbs and Hall for Pollock and Morkel for Ntini (Nel is also out with Steyn coming in) it would leave only Prince and Amla as previously disadvantaged players.

If this happens, then I will clearly say that the quotas/targets that exist are not as concrete as I thought.

Obviously I dont think it will happen that SA will play with only 2 PDPs but it is clearly what the coach wants.

This game is a test of how strong these targets are. Personally I think Ntini will play even though he is running on fumes and the coach wants him rested but it will be interesting to see if Im wrong.

 

[wpdavid]

The Test scheduled to start tomorrow against Pakistan has interesting ramifications regarding quotas.

If what Arthur wants to happen does happen then I am willing to state that the quotas/targets are not as inflexible as I had believed and stated.

Arthur wants Ntini and Pollock rested due to exhaustion and Gibbs will miss out due to suspension.

With Dippenaar coming in for Gibbs and Hall for Pollock and Morkel for Ntini (Nel is also out with Steyn coming in) it would leave only Prince and Amla as previously disadvantaged players.

If this happens, then I will clearly say that the quotas/targets that exist are not as concrete as I thought.

Obviously I dont think it will happen that SA will play with only 2 PDPs but it is clearly what the coach wants.

This game is a test of how strong these targets are. Personally I think Ntini will play even though he is running on fumes and the coach wants him rested but it will be interesting to see if Im wrong.

Fair points all, and kudos to you for making them. The other thing that strikes me is that the league table for test results must be pretty meaningless, given the importance of this game and SA's willingness to rest their best 2 bowlers for it.

 

[Richard]

Well... surely long-term preservation is more important than short-term gain?

This is, surely, the most ridiculous schedule ever in South African cricket. 6 back-to-back Tests, with ODIs hot on the heels and toes.

 

[wpdavid]

Well... surely long-term preservation is more important than short-term gain?

This is, surely, the most ridiculous schedule ever in South African cricket. 6 back-to-back Tests, with ODIs hot on the heels and toes.

Oh, it's an absolute nonsese, and I can see why they've done it (rested Ntini & Pollock, that is). But the whole situation renders the league table meaningless, which is maybe not such a bad thing.

 

[Richard]

I've never been a fan of the Test Championship since it deserted Matthew Engel's format.

Really, it just brings into question the whole idea of scheduling Test series in such close proximity to a Southern Hemisphere World Cup.

 

[Beleg]

South Hemisphere World Cup?

While I can understand the preservation issue, I can't say I am not disappointed. Both teams will go into the deciding test (of a so far pretty awesome series) understrength.

 

[Richard]

South Hemisphere World Cup?

That's actually not well written - what I meant was Southern Hemisphere season World Cup.

 

[Langeveldt]

Oh, it's an absolute nonsese, and I can see why they've done it (rested Ntini & Pollock, that is). But the whole situation renders the league table meaningless, which is maybe not such a bad thing.

Remember when SA were number 1?

 

[Richard]

And yet all it would've taken was a bit of patience and Australia would soon have regained said position.

 

[wpdavid]

Remember when SA were number 1?

1970?

No, I know what you meant. Wasn't it just before Aus mullah'd them about 5 years ago?