Zim Batting Lineup in ODIs

[iamdavid]

Thats exactly the same way Vermeulen got hit by friend in the WC , the gap between helmet & visor was just wide enough to let the ball in.

Now you'd think after suffering that once he'd make sure it never happened again , but obviously not

 

[Mingster]

They showed the difference between Grant Flower's (old style) and Travis Friend's (new style) helmets and it was huge. The older style has a much bigger gap.

 

[Tim]

Nah, Flower was wearing the Masuri which is newer than the one Friend was using...that one looked like an old Albion one.

The one Vermuelen was using, was the new style that the Australians wear & a few other international players i've seen.

 

[Mister Wright]

IMO Zimbabwe should not settle on an order, perhaps a top 3 or 4 and that is about it. They have a side that has the potential to bat down to 10. They should rotate the order depending on the state of the game. They can bring in Blignaught (sp) & Ervine if they need to get the run rate up, or use Taibu & Carlisle if they need a partnership.

If I had to chose an order it would be:

Flower
Vermeulen
Whisart
Carlisle
Ebrahim
Ervine
Streak
Taibu
Blignaught (sp)
Price
Hondo

Ebrahim was very exciting last night. I think he should go in with the mindset that Zimbabwe need 8 an over every time he goes into bat. He showed the improvisation needed for one-day cricket and is a very good runner between wickets and could be a good batsman to have during the middle overs, he is also brilliant in the field.

 

[Mingster]

Nah, Flower was wearing the Masuri which is newer than the one Friend was using...that one looked like an old Albion one.

The one Vermuelen was using, was the new style that the Australians wear & a few other international players i've seen.

Oh ok thanks Tim.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Why is everyone so keen on Flower opening again? He's done well in the middle order. Rather he's done better in the middle order.

Avge: 35.4 from no.3 go down
Avge: 32.89 opening.

 

[marc71178]

Thats exactly the same way Vermeulen got hit by friend in the WC

Why did his own team-mate hit him?

 

[Richard]

With all fit...

Carlisle/Vermeulen
Blignaut
Wishart
G. Flower
Streak *
Taibu +
Ervine
Ebrahim/Matsikenyeri/any other batsman
Friend/Viljeon
Price
Hondo

IMO Viljeon is a good ODI player, if he hasn't yet retired.

If Vermeulen plays he'll bat at 3 with Wishart opening.

Why have Wishart or Carlisle opening?!!!!!!!! It's enough to drive you crazy.
Grant Flower has been an opener all his life, and there are plenty of other rubbish batsmen in the Zimbabwean picture who are openers.
If you're going to waste one place, why on Earth would you want to waste two by turning a reasonable player into another rubbish one.
Even Matsikenyeri is a better opener than Wishart or Carlisle!

 

[Richard]

Why is everyone so keen on Flower opening again? He's done well in the middle order. Rather he's done better in the middle order.

Avge: 35.4 from no.3 go down
Avge: 32.89 opening.

But he's been an opener all his life.
Averages can be deceiving, as you tell us; you have said many times West Indian cricketers' domestic averages can't be taken as gospel.
Mark Butcher is another case, though there is a very specific reason his averages are deceiving. With Flower I can't think of one, except that when opening he had to face the like of Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, Waqar, Wasim, Srinath, Agarkar, etc. and in the middle-order his move has coincided almost exactly with the approximate point at which the standard of bowling dropped.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But he's been an opener all his life.
Averages can be deceiving

I know that, but it's refreshing to hear you admit it.

RE: Flower, I think he adds to the middle order by providing a distinct measure of stability.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Why have Wishart or Carlisle opening?!!!!!!!! It's enough to drive you crazy.
Grant Flower has been an opener all his life, and there are plenty of other rubbish batsmen in the Zimbabwean picture who are openers.
If you're going to waste one place, why on Earth would you want to waste two by turning a reasonable player into another rubbish one.
Even Matsikenyeri is a better opener than Wishart or Carlisle!

Carlisle is a good batsman technically and IMO is Zimbabwe's third best and second best specialist. If Carlisle is fit, I would play him without much hesitation. He starts slowly and that's undeniable. As such, it would make sense to let him bat at the top and see as many balls as possible to maximize his place in the team. That's also why I would partner him with Blignaut unless Vermeulen is playing.

Wishart is an enigma. He looks like a brilliant batsman while he's on form and then gets himself out in the most frustrating of ways. Still, with Zimbabwe's limited resources he is a pretty sure pick at this current time. He should open if Carlisle is not in the team and excluded if Carlisle and Vermeulen both are.

Another name that I would like to enter to the forum of discussion is Barney Rogers. He looked a decent player when I saw him. Certainly has potential.

 

[Rik]

There's that man Barney Rogers again. He struggled like hell in England but with a bit more confidence he could be really useful. Craig Evans might be useful, he has been so before. Gavin Ewing was badly treated in Australia, he's a decent batsman yet he was shoved down the order and that hardly helps confidence. Ok his bowling was murdered, but with some work he could very easily be the future of Zimbabwe cricket. When I 1st saw Ervine I thought he was one of the most useless players I've ever seen, bowled medium-pace and relied on the batsmen making mistakes to take wickets, and didn't have much of a hope with the bat. In both Tests and ODIs he looked...well...rubbish. Maybe things have changed. I think Viljoen gave up cricket due to the politics, gone back to his farm now to protect it. Looked a very handy player, although not the fittest. Sibanda is another of those young black players who have been picked for their colour and no other reason. Whilst players like Ewing average over 50 with the bat and 29 with the ball and get dropped after a few failures, Sibanda gets in despite no FC record to speak of. He scored a quack in his only innings in England too.

Anyway my batting order:

Vermeulen
Friend
Carlisle
Wishart
Flower
Rogers
Streak
Ervine
Taibu
Blignaut
Price

I'm pretty sure I've broken the rule in picking only one "coloured" player, but most of them are just not of International Standard. But look at the batting strength! Friend has a useful technique and with a bit of work could fill in some overs and open the batting with Vermers. Carlisle has scored most of his runs at 3 in ODIs, Wishart will speed up things at 4, Flower batted brilliantly at 5 and 6 in England, Rogers gets a chance in at 6, Streak and Ervine to hit out at 7 and 8, Taibu at 9 and Blignaut to wack the ball all over the place at the death at 10. The good thing is, most of the lower order could bat up the order, Blignaut could definately be used to speed up the rate, and with a bit of help, could actually build innings whilst keeping his attacking nature.

 

[Neil Pickup]

You see a side like that, and add Goodwin, Johnson, Olonga & Andy Flower.. and think, "Why.."

 

[Langeveldt]

You see a side like that, and add Goodwin, Johnson, Olonga & Andy Flower.. and think, "Why.."

Agreed, Zim have had such a lot of talent, and I love the way they play fighting cricket in the spirit it should be played... A lot of teams can learn a lot of lessons by watching the way they conduct themselves on the pitch, and with more pressure on them aswell...

Sadly they lack the depth needed to compete as much these days, but at least they have a number of good men around (Streak, Blignaut, Vermeulen, Flower, Ervine, Price, Friend, Carlisle etc.) So not all is lost after the departure of most of the old guard.. But they have lost so many class players it hurts...

An all time eleven

1. NC Johnson
2. GJ Rennie
3. GW Flower
4. A Flower
5. MW Goodwin
6. SV Carlisle
7. HH Streak
8. G Whittall
9. PA Strang
10. BC Strang
11. HK Olonga

 

[Salamuddin]

where's douggy marillier ?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

You see a side like that, and add Goodwin, Johnson, Olonga & Andy Flower.. and think, "Why.."

Don't forget Guy Whittall and Paul Strang.

 

[Prince EWS]

Dougy Marillier is still in ZImababwe and stille eligible to play. They simply dotn pick him due to lack of form.

 

[Richard]

Zimbabwe had the nucleus of a brilliant side in 1999\2000:
Johnson
G. Flower
Wishart
Campbell
Goodwin
A. Flower
Carlisle
G. Whittall
Streak
Brent
Olonga
----------
A. Whittall, P. Strang, B. Strang, G. Rennie, J. Rennie, Mbangwa, Nkala, Viljoen, plenty more and plenty about to emerge (Madondo, Marillier).
After the indifferent start to their international career - inevitable, everyone suffered it, except Eng and Aus - they were starting to build a really good side.
Then, just like everything else in "his" country, Mugabe ruined it.

 

[Richard]

I know that, but it's refreshing to hear you admit it.

RE: Flower, I think he adds to the middle order by providing a distinct measure of stability.

Admit it!:O I've been going-on about first-chance averages and judging bowlers on how they've bowled not their figures since God knows when!
I think Flower could add that stability anywhere; and it means you can have the few decent middle-order players left (Wishart and Carlisle) in the middle-order.

 

[Richard]

Carlisle is a good batsman technically and IMO is Zimbabwe's third best and second best specialist. If Carlisle is fit, I would play him without much hesitation. He starts slowly and that's undeniable. As such, it would make sense to let him bat at the top and see as many balls as possible to maximize his place in the team. That's also why I would partner him with Blignaut unless Vermeulen is playing.

Wishart is an enigma. He looks like a brilliant batsman while he's on form and then gets himself out in the most frustrating of ways. Still, with Zimbabwe's limited resources he is a pretty sure pick at this current time. He should open if Carlisle is not in the team and excluded if Carlisle and Vermeulen both are.

If you don't want Flower opening, why not just have two useless openers opening and the two middle-order players in the middle and the one decent opener after them?
I don't really rate Vermuelen either - a bit better than Sibanda and Ebrahim, but not much.
In the current climate I can't believe there could be any question over the places of either Wishart or Carlisle - they may have disappointed in their international careers so far, but they've still done better than most of the other Zimbabwean batsmen left.

Another name that I would like to enter to the forum of discussion is Barney Rogers. He looked a decent player when I saw him. Certainly has potential.

IMO he's just another Craig Evans.
Gavin Ewing is someone who has certainly been harshly treated.